What's The Value of a Bluetop?

[SCT]

So I went to a junkyard today that I never went to before and came across an FX16 GTS! Under the hood was a 4AGE Bluetop TVIS, I never seen one in the yards before, or seen one anywhere. Let alone I've seen only a couple redtop.

So, what's the value of the bluetop, if any? That way I'll drive back there and score it, or not.

[sirpedraza]

not sure. but its only a junk yard so they will probably sell the hole car for only a couple hundred bucks

[SCT]

I don't mean that kind of value. Something like can the motor be modded to achieve greater than the redtop or other 4ages. I just see the redtops, silvertop, and blacktop but not many bluetop moddings.

[Donald]

The FX-16 4A-GEs actually put out less hp (about 110, I think) than the AE-86 and AE-92, (115 hp)
Why I don't know but I wouldn't mess with it, unless you plan to swap out the pistons for small port pistons (more compression).

If you aren't going to work it, a 7A-FE will give you better performance. Better bottom end torque and same hp as an AE92 4A-GE.

[SCT]

Nah, I rather lower the compression to better handle boost since that's what I'm aiming for. I don't know why I want a turbo, but instead of a fake turbo, might just well make it do something

[Flashmn]

I don't know why I want a turbo

Thats probably the silliest thing I heard today.. ofcourse everybody wants a turbo its all about the WOO WOO ;DDD

[Donald]

Originally Posted by SCT

Nah, I rather lower the compression to better handle boost since that's what I'm aiming for. I don't know why I want a turbo, but instead of a fake turbo, might just well make it do something

If you are looking to go turbo, I think the FX-16 head on an AE92 bottom end would be better. The Blue Top bottom block has less strengthing ribs, and connecting rod big ends are smaller. Ofcoures that all depends on how much you plan on boosting.
You could probably get the same results by boosting your current engine.

[canadianae92]

if you are reving over 9000 or nearing 190 hp mark or are doing forced induction the bluetop HEAD is going to flow better than the smallport, a LOT of people are using bluetop heads

the bluetop blocks/cranks are perfectly fine for n/a, actually they are pretty good because of way less rotating weight but for forced induction you'd probably want the smallport or silvertop blocks and internals for the strength

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by Donald

The FX-16 4A-GEs actually put out less hp (about 110, I think) than the AE-86 and AE-92, (115 hp)
Why I don't know but I wouldn't mess with it, unless you plan to swap out the pistons for small port pistons (more compression).

If you aren't going to work it, a 7A-FE will give you better performance. Better bottom end torque and same hp as an AE92 4A-GE.

um, no.

All early 3 ribs (ae86, aw11, ae82) put out 112hp at the crank.

the 7 ribs (aw11, ae92, possibly late ae82 or ae86) rate in at 115hp because of larger injectors, a different ignition system, and larger cams.


make sure the car is wrecked before you start to work on it... otherwise you have to ask yourself why the car is in the junkyard (friend and I learned this the hardway.... that those 2 door Eagle Summits end up in the JY's for bad transmissions..... though, after 4 we were very fast at replacing them)

I paid $70 for the motor at a local JY and it's been in great shape so far.... as for modding it, it depends on what motor it is (3 or 7 rib).... both have their plusses and minuses....

[canadianae92]

a few hp isn't worth arguing about because with motors this old outputs will vary depending on condition

small port has smaller lift AND less duration cams, bigger injectors, higher compression pistons

bigport 7 ribs and 3 ribs are virtually identical so I don't know where you are getting this info of larger injectors and bigger cams, also classifying a 4age as a 7 rib is pretty vague, as in it speaks only of the strength of the block but not internals or head layout

[REN69]

either bigport motor would be fine for boost, as long as you're not going with some crazy boost and you're not doing burnouts at every red light it will hold up.

[canadianae92]

its been done

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by canadianae92

a few hp isn't worth arguing about because with motors this old outputs will vary depending on condition

small port has smaller lift AND less duration cams, bigger injectors, higher compression pistons

bigport 7 ribs and 3 ribs are virtually identical so I don't know where you are getting this info of larger injectors and bigger cams, also classifying a 4age as a 7 rib is pretty vague, as in it speaks only of the strength of the block but not internals or head layout

The cams in the later years are slightly smaller, not larger.....

We are talking about bigports..... no need to get the smallport into the mix...... and when you're talking 3 vs. 7 rib, it pretty much denotes which version you're talking about. Saying bluetop or redtop is more vauge.

Next.... the reason I was mentioning differences is because you are trying to clearly make a statement that the ae82 motor has less power (from stock) than an ae86 and ae92 motor, which isn't true -- I was trying to make the point that essentially they are the same, not different.

The ignition systems are different, the cranks are different, the pistons are different, the injectors are larger (about 15cc), the AFM's are different, the ecu's are different.....


If you use a 7afe in replacement of a 4age, you will probably get an engine with less wear and tear and yes, a little more torque down low, however you will lose the essence of what the 4age car used to be -- which is a fun, high revving sport-like car.


As for bigports being modified -- tons have been modified in aw11's and ae86's. In fact, there are more of these modified than there are modded smallports & 20V's in them. There are a wide variety of parts that can be used including things like cams, higher compression pistons, pistons for boost, rods (of all sorts), valves, shims (and styles), manifolds, etc.

Currently have a junkyard 4age bigport in my 87 mr2 with a latemodel S/C set bolted on it.

[canadianae92]

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

The cams in the later years are slightly smaller, not larger.....

We are talking about bigports..... no need to get the smallport into the mix...... and when you're talking 3 vs. 7 rib, it pretty much denotes which version you're talking about. Saying bluetop or redtop is more vauge.

Next.... the reason I was mentioning differences is because you are trying to clearly make a statement that the ae82 motor has less power (from stock) than an ae86 and ae92 motor, which isn't true -- I was trying to make the point that essentially they are the same, not different.

The ignition systems are different, the cranks are different, the pistons are different, the injectors are larger (about 15cc), the AFM's are different, the ecu's are different.....


If you use a 7afe in replacement of a 4age, you will probably get an engine with less wear and tear and yes, a little more torque down low, however you will lose the essence of what the 4age car used to be -- which is a fun, high revving sport-like car.


As for bigports being modified -- tons have been modified in aw11's and ae86's. In fact, there are more of these modified than there are modded smallports & 20V's in them. There are a wide variety of parts that can be used including things like cams, higher compression pistons, pistons for boost, rods (of all sorts), valves, shims (and styles), manifolds, etc.

Currently have a junkyard 4age bigport in my 87 mr2 with a latemodel S/C set bolted on it.

you said

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

um, no.

All early 3 ribs (ae86, aw11, ae82) put out 112hp at the crank.

the 7 ribs (aw11, ae92, possibly late ae82 or ae86) rate in at 115hp because of larger injectors, a different ignition system, and larger cams.

i said

Originally Posted by canadianae92

small port has smaller lift AND less duration cams, bigger injectors, higher compression pistons

The only reason I brought small port up was because of what you said, the only difference in cams is when the smallport is brought into the picture. A change in cams is why I brought smallport up as its the only head with a different cams in the 16v lineup other than 4agze. Which is why I said, be specific, ex. big port 7 rib, big port 3 rib. There is a difference between the small port and big port 7 rib, even in the block, not to mention 20 valves are also 7 rib, therefore head spec then block = more specific.

For the record the big port 7 rib only gained power because of an ecu retune, it has stronger internals a bit than the 3 rib(larger wrist pin, rod journals), it has the SAME compression as the 3 rib, the injectors are the same as far as I know, the only difference with ignition system is the distrubutor changing sensor methods. No doubt there are other changes from the early motors, but no need to tell us the wire color change to the exhaust o2 sensor.

I never said any motor made any certain amount of power, nor did I say anything about 7afes. And actually I was the one who specifically said that there is no need to make a big fuss over a couple of hp, like you and that other guy, because first of all toyota's hp figures are a half truth and second of all big port 3 rib and 7 rib are nearly identical without elaborating.

[Mr.Nutcase]

I would guess since that car is the junkyard, is not worth that much,( you might get savalge title, lowering the price on car.