motor swap! HELP! - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

highschoolbuilder · 03-07-2010, 01:41 AM

i recently bought a 1990 corolla wagon dlx (All-trac) it has the 1.6 fe motor in it. and it is a five speed, first of all... I LOVE IT! haha but my question is i was looking at a few fun parts for it. and i found a motor that looks like it would bolt in (figuratively speaking) to my car. http://www.jdmenginedepot.com/jdm_en...ll-Trac_3S-GTE

can anyone tell me if it will work or not, if so. within a year or two i will have the ultimate sleeper

if anyone could tell me an indepth description on whether it will work. and if it does what all needs to be done

i am a beginner in engine swaps. but i have very experienced backers to help me build her. thanks for any replys that help

any of you that are laughing at me feel free to tell me im a dumb ass ;p

Blof-fan · 03-07-2010, 04:46 AM

First of all, it can be done off course.
Everything can be made to fit, but at what expense!

Here in the Netherlands, ther is one guy who fitted a 3S-GTE into a Corolla AE101. And I know of a MR2 AW11 here that has a 3S-GTE in the back aswell.

But if you are a beginner on engine swaps...do realize what you are getting yourself into!
This is no easy or common swap! Figure that the car won't drive for months

The 3S engines do not fit directly into the 4A engine series engine mounts. So you will either have to grind, relocate and weld the chassis mounts.
Or do what most people do and fab you own custom mounts so that they will work with the enginemounts.

Off course,there is all the electrical wiring that has to be modified and all the plumbing that goes with a turbo engine.

But in your case, although already a pain in the ass, that is still the easy part!
The difficulty that your facing is the drivetrain!

If you want to keep the 4WD configuration (thát would be the ultimate sleeper) you will need the drivetrain of a Celica GT4 and modify it to work under the Corolla. That on it's own is going to be a lot of work and it is really going to cost a lot of $$$$$!

So yes, it can be done...but with all the knowledge, time and money involved, you just have to ask yourself one question: Do you really want to be the one to do it!

highschoolbuilder · 03-07-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blof-fan

First of all, it can be done off course.
Everything can be made to fit, but at what expense!

Here in the Netherlands, ther is one guy who fitted a 3S-GTE into a Corolla AE101. And I know of a MR2 AW11 here that has a 3S-GTE in the back aswell.

But if you are a beginner on engine swaps...do realize what you are getting yourself into!
This is no easy or common swap! Figure that the car won't drive for months

The 3S engines do not fit directly into the 4A engine series engine mounts. So you will either have to grind, relocate and weld the chassis mounts.
Or do what most people do and fab you own custom mounts so that they will work with the enginemounts.

Off course,there is all the electrical wiring that has to be modified and all the plumbing that goes with a turbo engine.

But in your case, although already a pain in the ass, that is still the easy part!
The difficulty that your facing is the drivetrain!

If you want to keep the 4WD configuration (thát would be the ultimate sleeper) you will need the drivetrain of a Celica GT4 and modify it to work under the Corolla. That on it's own is going to be a lot of work and it is really going to cost a lot of $$$$$!

So yes, it can be done...but with all the knowledge, time and money involved, you just have to ask yourself one question: Do you really want to be the one to do it!

AHHHH! haha okay, i was just thinking because it is both all-tracs that it would be just a (fairly simple) bolt up. okay, so with that mostly scrapped :'( what motor would be a direct bolt up to the transmission? would a 4agze? it is the same block? i would more thank likely have to do some custom piping for the supercharger to make it fit under the hood. but what do you think?

Blof-fan · 03-07-2010, 01:41 PM

All the 4A series engines will be a direct bolt in as far as the mechnicals for the engine go.
So all the 4A-GE variants (4A-GE, 4A-GE 20V ST or BT, 4A-GZE) will work.
I guess the transmission might even bolt on...BUT

I'm not 100% sure of this, don't own a 4WD myself or ever even seen one close enough to inspect it

. But for what I've heard...the 4WD gearbox isn't exactly overengineered. I guess it will not take the extra power (or torque for that matter) produced by a engine like a 4A-GZE.

I guess your best bet is a standard 4A-GE. It already produces 20hp more than your current 4A-FE and might not chew up the gearbox. But that still isn't a certainty

But they are very commonly available for very affordable prices, a lot of parts available and if the gearbox does hold out, you can pretty easily upgrade the engine.

highschoolbuilder · 03-07-2010, 01:58 PM

i already know it isnt over enengeered. it feels a little... ehhh flimsey. thats why i was hopeing the 3sgte would bolt right on transmission and all, because they seem like they might be a bit more trusty.

Blof-fan · 03-07-2010, 02:06 PM

Ohw, but they are! I know of 3S-GTE gearboxes that took up to 600bhp! But then again. They probably weigh twice as much as your gearbox.

If you really want to go with a 4A-GZE, you still can off course. But you might have to consider to drop the 4wd system and go with fwd with the GZE's original gearbox.

But that's the choise you'll have to make

highschoolbuilder · 03-07-2010, 02:30 PM

my one stipulation about this entire build is that i keep my 4wd system. thats the only thing. so it will take alot of calm driving haha

Frozentide · 03-07-2010, 08:13 PM

If you want to keep it 4wd, then you are pretty much stuck with the exact engine you currently have. UNLESS you want to do custom fabrication.

No swap will bolt up directly due to the transmission. All 4AGE's and 4AGZE's were FWD. 3SGTE needs lots of custom mounts and TONS of work. Not to mention the 3SGTE engine and transmission is more than 2x the weight of your current engine, so imagine how that will affect handling and performance.

highschoolbuilder · 03-07-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozentide

If you want to keep it 4wd, then you are pretty much stuck with the exact engine you currently have. UNLESS you want to do custom fabrication.

No swap will bolt up directly due to the transmission. All 4AGE's and 4AGZE's were FWD. 3SGTE needs lots of custom mounts and TONS of work. Not to mention the 3SGTE engine and transmission is more than 2x the weight of your current engine, so imagine how that will affect handling and performance.

me and a few friends were talking, since the 4afe, the 4age and the 4agze share the same block, we were thinking i could just do a simple head swap, that should work just fine, what do you think?

***SCT*** · 03-07-2010, 11:18 PM

I think you can swap heads on the 4AF/E and 4AGE/ZE around. However, 4AGE came in 16V and 20V. So, that extra valve in the 20V head, you may need to make room with the 16V piston (cut a groove).

kwint · 03-07-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highschoolbuilder

me and a few friends were talking, since the 4afe, the 4age and the 4agze share the same block, we were thinking i could just do a simple head swap, that should work just fine, what do you think?

With how much crap you have to swap over from the ge, you might as well do a full swap. I've read of one user who used a 4afe ecu with a I believe it was a red top 4age. Put down 109whp. The thread is out there if you search.

So if you have a way to increase the rev limit, you could just do a direct swap if you're willing to try that out.

On the topic of swaps, which part of the 4afe harness doesn't match up to the 4age harness? I read that there were 3 plugs that dont plug in or don't match up. I mean are the engine side connections the same?

Evo_lucian · 03-08-2010, 07:17 AM

Ok here is my input on the subject. The 3sg/te swap has been done alot into fwd corollas. Personally seen my buddy perform the swap twice into ae101 levins but to be toatlly honest i have never seen it done on a 4wd application. Fitting the engine and welding up mounts is easy if you have half a brain and are comfortable with tools and have acces to a MIG or some one who can weld. The problems i see you may encounter is mating the gt4 (4wd gearbox) to your car. Again it might be just as easy to do but like i said i never seen it done.

You can just swap in a 4agze but IIRC the transfer case will foul against the 4ag block . My solution if You really want a 4agze and want to keep 4wd is to use your 4af block and swap in all the 4agze harware.The rod journals are he same size so the crank, rods and pistons will just drop in. The 4afe, 5afe 4age,4agze all have the same mounting points for all the accessories. We did a 5afze conversion some time ago using the 4agze hardware but using the 5afe head , block and internals. Everything fits.

You are basically building an engine from the ground up if you choose this route.

Another option is to turbo the 4af you got in there right now. There are at least 2 members who have done it on here. The threads are around.

Another option is to drop a 4age head on to your 4af block and then that would essentially make it a 4age. C/r will be a bit lower than stock if you keep the 4af pistons though. Feel free to ask me any questions if you didnt understand anything i just wrote

Frozentide · 03-08-2010, 05:55 PM

Great post Evo_lucian! I think that will give highschoolbuilder all of the info he needs.

highschoolbuilder · 03-08-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evo_lucian

Ok here is my input on the subject. The 3sg/te swap has been done alot into fwd corollas. Personally seen my buddy perform the swap twice into ae101 levins but to be toatlly honest i have never seen it done on a 4wd application. Fitting the engine and welding up mounts is easy if you have half a brain and are comfortable with tools and have acces to a MIG or some one who can weld. The problems i see you may encounter is mating the gt4 (4wd gearbox) to your car. Again it might be just as easy to do but like i said i never seen it done.

You can just swap in a 4agze but IIRC the transfer case will foul against the 4ag block . My solution if You really want a 4agze and want to keep 4wd is to use your 4af block and swap in all the 4agze harware.The rod journals are he same size so the crank, rods and pistons will just drop in. The 4afe, 5afe 4age,4agze all have the same mounting points for all the accessories. We did a 5afze conversion some time ago using the 4agze hardware but using the 5afe head , block and internals. Everything fits.

You are basically building an engine from the ground up if you choose this route.

Another option is to turbo the 4af you got in there right now. There are at least 2 members who have done it on here. The threads are around.

Another option is to drop a 4age head on to your 4af block and then that would essentially make it a 4age. C/r will be a bit lower than stock if you keep the 4af pistons though. Feel free to ask me any questions if you didnt understand anything i just wrote

so what are the main benifits to doing the 5agze swap?

4doorGTS · 03-08-2010, 08:42 PM

The 5afe is just the japanese version of our 4afe, no power difference.

You can swap in any 4age with just a minor grinding of one "ear" on the block intake side, once you had everything laid out it would become obvious I'm sure. I don't think the 4agze works with the awd trans because the supercharger would interfere with the transmission.

Here's a wagon but underneath its all the exact same as the sedan version.

http://www.twincam.info/index.php?showtopic=25035