new engine and trans?

[jordanangel]

hey TN I have a 90 Geo Prizm and want to swap the engine and trans but have some questions

first is can a 4age head fit on a 7afe block? if so is it a direct swap across or does it need modding

2nd I'm gonna swap the auto for a manual trans and am thinking about a 6 speed, anyone know were I can get one? I know its on the back of a blacktop but I don't want a black top.

thanks ahead

[Murgatroy]

Yes, a 4AGE head will fit a 7AFE block. Check your headgasket to make sure all bolts line up.

It is my understanding that the 2ZZGE 6-speed, I forget the transmission code right now, will bolt to an A series engine.

[Donald]

Originally Posted by jordanangel

hey TN I have a 90 Geo Prizm and want to swap the engine and trans but have some questions

first is can a 4age head fit on a 7afe block? if so is it a direct swap across or does it need modding

It will fit, but! You will need:
Porsche 924 timing belt.
Swap the lower timing belt pulley/gear from the 4A-GE.
The water pump outlet pipe off the 4A-GE.
The timing belt bottom cover off the 4A-GE.

There is probably more that I can't think of.
I Think Piloteer in the 7th Gen Corolla forum has a good write-up on that mod, (It might be in the Corolla Lounge) but I don't think he ever finished it, and thare are a few others at various sites online.
I was planning on doing it myself, but my 4A-GE crank broke and metal shavings chewed up my cams and head.

[jordanangel]

Originally Posted by Murgatroy

It is my understanding that the 2ZZGE 6-speed, I forget the transmission code right now, will bolt to an A series engine.

really, I heard that you need a lot of mods to for it to work, I've heard the c160 trans from the blacktop bolts rights up and have been looking around for one but if I can get a 2ZZGE 6 speed trans to work then I'll think about, but does anyone know what I would have to do to get to fit?

[eishiba]

Originally Posted by jordanangel

really, I heard that you need a lot of mods to for it to work, I've heard the c160 trans from the blacktop bolts rights up and have been looking around for one but if I can get a 2ZZGE 6 speed trans to work then I'll think about, but does anyone know what I would have to do to get to fit?

Ive looked into the c160 swap myself for a while now. For one I know the fork off the c160 won't work. Will have to use the one off yours. I think the mounting plate you will have to drill holes into it becaues it doesn't match to what is on the car. And you will have to do some cutting to get the shifter to go into reverse. It should bolt right up to the engine however. There is a sticky for it on here.

[jordanangel]

Originally Posted by eishiba

Ive looked into the c160 swap myself for a while now. For one I know the fork off the c160 won't work. Will have to use the one off yours. I think the mounting plate you will have to drill holes into it becaues it doesn't match to what is on the car. And you will have to do some cutting to get the shifter to go into reverse. It should bolt right up to the engine however. There is a sticky for it on here.

yea i know there's a sticky and am glad to know that I can use that for a ref, and it looks like if i do this trans swap I'm gonna need me a shifter from another car seeing as I have an auto right now, I've heard the celica gt-s shifter is good for a short shift.

[Murgatroy]

The 7th Gen Celica shifter is, the 4th through 6th gen stock shifter is the same as a Corolla shifter. I am running a modified Corolla shifter in my 4th Gen Celica.

[jordanangel]

ok so I have a few more questions.

1st: could the 7afe block handle the boost from a gze head and s/c?

and is the s/c from the gze able to be modded for more boost or should i just go for a bigger one?

[Donald]

Originally Posted by jordanangel

ok so I have a few more questions.

1st: could the 7afe block handle the boost from a gze head and s/c?

and is the s/c from the gze able to be modded for more boost or should i just go for a bigger one?

The block is not the weak link. The connecting rods are, for two reasons. One, their thickness and two, the angles that they need to operate at.
I know others have built and run 7A-GZEs, and some have claimed some high RPM with no problems, and others have fragmented bottom ends.

In my opinion you will have a more reliable engine with very good performance by just changing the crank pulley that drives the supercharger to get mosre boost from an otherwze stock 4A-GZE. That way you won't need to mess with Porsche timing belt, mixing and swapping timing belt pulley, or oil pump and water pump.

[jordanangel]

Originally Posted by Donald

The block is not the weak link. The connecting rods are, for two reasons. One, their thickness and two, the angles that they need to operate at.
I know others have built and run 7A-GZEs, and some have claimed some high RPM with no problems, and others have fragmented bottom ends.

ok but is there a way to get new rods that are stronger and better design or would that just do the same thing, and if i can't find a 4AGZE that's in decent shape then I'll just go for my other plan and build the 7AGE, I just don't like turbos much and well want alot more go then I have right now, and so i figure a bigger 7AGE or the same size boosted 4AGZE would be a great upgrade with a 6 speed manual trans

[Donald]

Originally Posted by jordanangel

ok but is there a way to get new rods that are stronger and better design or would that just do the same thing, and if i can't find a 4AGZE that's in decent shape then I'll just go for my other plan and build the 7AGE, I just don't like turbos much and well want alot more go then I have right now, and so i figure a bigger 7AGE or the same size boosted 4AGZE would be a great upgrade with a 6 speed manual trans

With the GZE, you won't need the 6th speed because it has so much more torque you won't need to shift as much to keep in the power band.

A company in Australia called Spool offers a set of rods for the 7A-FE for about $500 US, I think + about $75 shipping, can't remember for sure.
A 7A-GE with stock 7A bottom end and small port 4A-GE pistons (large port 4A-GE pistons will drop the compression) with the large port head (TVIS), should give you about 145 HP with the same 115 ft/lb torque, but I think the peak torque moves up from 2800 RPM to 4500 RPM, when the TVIS opens up, but you still have about 100 ft/lb at about 3000RPM.

I had planned a 7A-GE build, but have changed my mind and am now thinking of getting a AE101 4A-GZE (the best version). Just waiting to sell another car to have the cash.

The 7A is a good mild upgrade from a 4A-FE, and will work with the 4A-FE wiring if you swap the distributer, I think. But for more power it is limited, and the effort involved might not be worth the results.

[jordanangel]

Originally Posted by Donald

With the GZE, you won't need the 6th speed because it has so much more torque you won't need to shift as much to keep in the power band.

A company in Australia called Spool offers a set of rods for the 7A-FE for about $500 US, I think + about $75 shipping, can't remember for sure.
A 7A-GE with stock 7A bottom end and small port 4A-GE pistons (large port 4A-GE pistons will drop the compression) with the large port head (TVIS), should give you about 145 HP with the same 115 ft/lb torque, but I think the peak torque moves up from 2800 RPM to 4500 RPM, when the TVIS opens up, but you still have about 100 ft/lb at about 3000RPM.

I had planned a 7A-GE build, but have changed my mind and am now thinking of getting a AE101 4A-GZE (the best version). Just waiting to sell another car to have the cash.

The 7A is a good mild upgrade from a 4A-FE, and will work with the 4A-FE wiring if you swap the distributer, I think. But for more power it is limited, and the effort involved might not be worth the results.

well i figured i wouldn't NEED the 6 speed but i kinda want it for for the fun and maybe try to find a taller set of gears to fit in it, what do you think?

do you think those rods could hold up to the boost of the supercharger? cuz if they could then I still might do the 7AGZE build but that's only IF they could, do you have a website for it?

even with just that 7AGE i would love that much power seeing as I only have like 105 HP and 100 torque with the 4AFE and the 3 speed auto gets that thing going pretty quick considering I have taken the muffler off and wow its loud and got more power, but I love the wine of the supercharger and the power is amazing from the 4AGZE so I've heard.

[Donald]

Originally Posted by jordanangel

well i figured i wouldn't NEED the 6 speed but i kinda want it for for the fun and maybe try to find a taller set of gears to fit in it, what do you think?

do you think those rods could hold up to the boost of the supercharger? cuz if they could then I still might do the 7AGZE build but that's only IF they could, do you have a website for it?

even with just that 7AGE i would love that much power seeing as I only have like 105 HP and 100 torque with the 4AFE and the 3 speed auto gets that thing going pretty quick considering I have taken the muffler off and wow its loud and got more power, but I love the wine of the supercharger and the power is amazing from the 4AGZE so I've heard.

Link to Spool, Australia. The prices are in Au$
http://www.spoolimports.com/content/...AFECONRODS.asp

The C-160 6 speed gearbox has the first 5 ratios lower than the C-52 5 speed, then the 6th gear drops the revs for cruizing.
With the GZE + C-160 combination you will be running out of gears and needing to shift more often. That will get very old real soon.

The 20V engines need the lower and closer ratios to make up for a lack of torque.

A torquey engine like the GZE with a C-160 attached, could probably move off in second gear and only use 2nd, 4th & 6th in traffic.

The lower ratios of the 6spd won't allow you to benefit from all that bottom end torque of the GZE. If you really want a 6 speed, I would suggest you do a complete blacktop and gearbox assembly swap.

I have heard that just putting a C-160 on a 4A-GE 16V will make a world of a difference to the way it feels, even with the meesly 115hp. It allows you to keep that sucker right up there in the power band, and still cruize comfortably on the highway.

[jordanangel]

Originally Posted by Donald

The C-160 6 speed gearbox has the first 5 ratios lower than the C-52 5 speed, then the 6th gear drops the revs for cruizing.
With the GZE + C-160 combination you will be running out of gears and needing to shift more often. That will get very old real soon

can you put the higher gears out of the C-52 in the C-160? or would that just be pointless.

I see what your talking about and I wouldn't mind putting the 5 speed in just I thought having a 6 speed would be cool in a 20 year old car but if your saying that the GZE + stock C-160 would be more of a hassle then its worth then I'll stick with the C-52, and are they the same 5 speed that's in the corolla/prizm?

[Donald]

Originally Posted by jordanangel

can you put the higher gears out of the C-52 in the C-160? or would that just be pointless.

I see what your talking about and I wouldn't mind putting the 5 speed in just I thought having a 6 speed would be cool in a 20 year old car but if your saying that the GZE + stock C-160 would be more of a hassle then its worth then I'll stick with the C-52, and are they the same 5 speed that's in the corolla/prizm?

Just want you to know, I have no first hand knowledge on the C-160, so I am going off what I read and comparing it to my other experiences.
rdyzz has done a C-160 swap so you might want to get his opinion on this too. fitting c160 6-speed into ae92

I don't know if the internals will swap over. I do know that there are some internal bore differences and gear thicknesses between the C-50, and the C-52, so there could be differences with the C-160 also. But what do you think would be gained by swapping internals?

I haven't been able to find any definitive specs (Ratios) on the GZE gearboxes, so I don't know how they compare to the other C-52s, but I figure Toyota probably got them matched pretty close to what that engine's power curve requires.
I really suspect they are the same as those in the sedans.

The gearbox ratios should be the same from the Corolla to the Prizm, along with all the other running gear and suspension. Except there was a Prizim sedan (GSi) with a 4A-GE and rear sway, so those will probably have the GT-S gearbox too.