4af manifold swap

[chip369]

ok, i want to convert my 4af to efi (no i DONT want to do an engine swap)
for all you haters out there i KNOW the 4age has better performance, but i dont want to be swapping motors, because a) i dont have an engine crane and b) i can only afford a second hand motor and i have no guarantees that its going to be in good nick.

SO 4af -> efi

i want to know is there a manifold i can pull off another efi motor, or an aftermarket manifold that has the fuel injector bungs in the manifold, instead of in the cylinder head?.. iv'e recently done a head gasket and i dont want to b changing the head after i just put it back together..

[NZAE92]

G'day

If you can find the manifold from the 4afe, which is the EFI version of the 4AF then you should be fine, Also if you can get the head from that same engine then you will have everything you will need to swap to efi and also the fuel pump as it is electronic fuel injection and the ecu and also maybe the tank.

Don't go off my words i'm not too sure but i know anything 4afe will bolt straight on.

Can anyone else tell me if i'm right or wrong?.

[chip369]

Ki Ora
Thanks, I pretty sure your right, 4afe parts should bolt straight on, the only differences is that the 4afe has different pistons and 24 valves instead of 16. I know what parts I need and I'm planning on pulling every thing else out of a 4afe, however the injectors in a 4afe sit in the cylinder head, I don't want to change my head, or get the injector bunts drilled, so I'm looking for a manifold that holds the injectors, I don't think I will find a genuine manifold that bolts straight on, but if anyone knows of one it would b a huge help.

[Flashmn]

Thanks, I pretty sure your right, 4afe parts should bolt straight on, the only differences is that the 4afe has different pistons and 24 valves instead of 16.

Huh 24 valves? Last time I counted they only had 16.. The same generation 4A-F and FE had pretty much the same pistons aswell, not much difference there.

The earlier generation 4A-FE has the injector bungs in the head, the newer generation has them in the intake manifold, but that generation manifold wont fit your generation head. The 4A-F head is same, only differences is that theres the hole for the mechanical fuel pump and theres no drillings in the head for injector bungs. The places for the injectors are still there, they just have to be machined out. Good luck finding anything but a genuine manifold to bolt on, they dont exist, unless someone fabricates it to you.

[chip369]

second generation 4afe had redesigned intake ports, pistons, larger cams and a map sensor... i whole heartedly take back the 24 valves thing, i was reading up on some other motors and was tripping not to question it as i wrote it.

i didnt want to take the head off but i may have to, i could always get a custom manifold, and then i could have one that is tuned to performance spec, but theres really no point, im not building a race car, just getting rid of the carby..

another thing, i have read that the 4afe injection system is not sequential, that it fires all injector at once? any thoughts on this? i didnt think they would do this as this would give the air/fule time to collect and form droplets, and not burn properly.. if this is the case could i find a better ecu?

[Flashmn]

Naah, theres no problem in that method. Engine RPM and heat keep the fuel mixture quite nicely in the airstream. Most cars worked that way till lately. I wouldnt bother myself too much over something like that.

[Flashmn]

Simplest way to do this conversion is to get a 4A-FE engine and transplant the head over to the 4A-F and use the distributor to trigger the EFI ECU along with all associated sensors and switches.

[chip369]

dropping a whole new head on may be the easiest way to go, second gen 4afe...

the 4age head should bolt straight on as well, but ive been hearing the different compression ratio causes damage.. what is the comp ratio of a 4af vs 1st gen 4age bigport?? is it a big difference?

[Flashmn]

Its not a big difference, but since the 4a-Ge head has a different shape the mismatching pistons are going to significantly lower the compression. As for putting a 2nd gen 4A-FE head on it, sure, but you're going to have to get the lower pulley and use a different tensioner and timing belt. They arent compatible, the belt is longer and theres some differences with the tooth profile.

[chip369]

Any idea what belt and tensioner I would use? Also which lower pulley? The one on the tensioner or the crank?

[verlaryder]

4A-F 0-60 MPH: 11.1 seconds
4A-FE 0-60 MPH: 11.0 seconds

WOW what thrill it will be once you convert to a 4A-FE!

[chip369]

it's a toyota corolla, its a daily driver, and its my missus car, i couldnt care less how fast it goes.. its not going to be a race car, if it was i would drop a 3s-gte in it and i would bore, stroke, polish and customize every bit of it, and then when i was done i wouldnt be dropping it in a frontwheel drive sardine can, i'd put it in a st205 celica... and THEN i'd build a real motor, and forget the east west bullshit, infact i'd probably forget ICE motors all together.

the whole idea of going efi was to get rid of the slow cold morning starts, the flat spots at 1500rpm, the lack of any power with a cold motor, and the running rich, even thoe u tuned the carby a week ago..


im looking for performance in the form of reliability, not power, i already stated dropping a 4a-ge in would b a waste of time.

another reason i wanted to do the conversion was for the knowledge, a better understanding of efi and so i can maybe do the same on my 22r in the landcruiser that has auto-choke issues with IT's carby, and the corolla is easier to work on than the cruiser, because i dont have to crawl on top of it just to see the engine bay.

[Flashmn]

Reliabilitywise the stock 4A-F is way more reliable than a mismatched 4A-FE. You're going to run into problems, even the fuel lines arent the same in a 4A-F vs FE, the FE has bigger lines and the piece that holds the fuel pump of the 4A-FE is 160euros (over here) at a toyota dealership, not including the pump. Its really and endless money pit to do it, like I said in my PM, I wouldnt do the conversion just for those reasons.

[chip369]

parts shouldn't b that hard to get, in Aus we have pick-a-part, basically a wreckers where u do the wrecking yourself (not sure how popular this is elsewhere) wich is good because you can see the quality of parts before you buy them, and their much cheaper than an average wreckers. i would stay away from genuine toyota, and dealership parts as much as possible, they are always 10X more expensive than second hand and 3X more expensive than aftermarket.

i realize its a big job, that's why i haven't started yet, and im putting alot of research in. my original question about manifolds that fit with the injector bungs in them was to bypass issues such as miss matched timing belts ect. i realize the fuel lines need to be changed, i was thinking of buying a whole tank ect (again from pick-a-part)

so far the project is in its research stage because i don't want to get halfway through and find something i can make work.

what problem do you expect i'll face once i have everything installed?

[Drainx]

I thought they rip the tank bottom to drain the fuel or something? At least at the places I have been to...