And out of left field, a question about putting a D16 into an AE95 - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

RogueMoog · 04-30-2011, 11:37 AM

I've been trying to wrap my head around this, talking with some friends who know a lot more about engines and cars than I do. Before I start, I don't want to see any Honda vs Toyota arguments... I own one of each anyway

Here's the thing... I ended up with an extra D16z6 engine, and it's been sitting in my garage for a while now. Every time I look at it, I think, "I wonder if I can get that to work in my All-Trac wagon." But I know one thing, along with most of the older Honda engines (D, B, F, H) it turns the "wrong way" compared to a Toyota (and pretty much every other make out there). I'm just trying to think outside the Toyota box.

How much of a PITA would it be to make that D16 to turn in the opposite direction? Would it require major head work (making the intake and exhaust opposite of each other), because you can't have the intake and exhaust working in the opposite order with the D16 being run in the opposite direction?

Besides that, I'm guessing I would also need a rewired or custom built starter, having a custom "mirrored" camshaft, custom engine mount, custom adapter plate between the AE95 tranny and the D16, among other things (Honda ECU, wiring harness).

I know the D16 isn't the best Honda engine, but it can be built up for NA up to around 146hp / 111 ft-lb torque and not put a huge dent in my wallet (~$1k in parts). Although if this project was doable for a reasonable cost, such as a friend of mine making the adapter plate for me, I'd be better off doing this with a B18 or even better, an H22 (190 stock HP

), if they would fit into the engine bay.

Anyways, I'm guessing I'd be better off building a 4AGE for NA instead, and it would cost less. Or just turbo the 4AFE (though I'm looking into NA options). But I want to hear your opinions, or if you've heard of anyone trying this before.

kwint · 04-30-2011, 12:01 PM

Sounds like it would be more trouble than it's worth. Toyota isn't the best when it comes to all motor 4 banger builds. I'd go 4age blacktop because it has all the same stuff you would put in a built z6. It's probably gonna cost more than 1k when you consider all the fabbing thats gonna have to be done. The hub sizes are different between honda and toyota, so you'd have to fab up axles that fit the corolla hub and the z6 transmission, then mounts, wiring, etc.

Silvertops can be had on ebay for like 1200 shipped. I think you'd be happier overall with a 20v. I know a 20v isn't fast by any means, but that 4age itb sound is wonderful.

Flashmn · 04-30-2011, 01:05 PM

Its so much work to get it to run in reverse that theres really no point in doing it. Everything from oil pump to timing belt.

SuperRA · 04-30-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashmn

Its so much work to get it to run in reverse that theres really no point in doing it. Everything from oil pump to timing belt.

Yep, I agree, it might be so much work it would be better to redesign a whole new engine from scratch that works correctly. Ok, maybe not quite that much but it'd be pretty close. Amongst other items I can't think of at the moment, you'd have to have to design a new distributor, cams, timing belt system, water pump, PS, AC, Alt?, basically anything that turns along with the crank would have to be dealt with. Also, the reciprocating assembly is most likely designed to optimize oil splash while turning in the correct direction. Who knows what happens when turning the wrong way.

My suggestion, buy a honda that came with that motor stock that is blown. Fix it with that motor and sell it for a profit.

canadianae92 · 04-30-2011, 09:15 PM

uh so you want to swap in a motor that hardly makes more than the 4af, go for it, i think its a dumb idea the the labor really wouldn't pay off even a little bit

swap a k

Evo_lucian · 05-01-2011, 07:24 AM

Honestly the swap isn't a bad idea, I would have probably tried to swap in a b series but if that's all you have then...

Some D series came stock with 130 hp, even lowly 105 hp D series engines can make 20v power with very little $. D series has better aftermarket support than any Toyota "A" series engine out there.

Why would you want The engine to spin the other way ? Just mount it as you would in a Honda and just use the Honda gearbox. If want to keep it awd the Honda guys usually get the awd parts from the early 90's wagon , can't recall the name. I will assume it will it would a lot of fab work awd might be easier to make it fwd.

If you not comfortable with a welding machine or have the means to may for a lot of welding and fabbing then this swap is not for you. almost any fwd 4 cyl engone can fit in a corolla, the biggest and most expensive problem is usually axles.

In the end you just have to ask yourself is it worth it.

RogueMoog · 05-01-2011, 08:56 AM

Thanks for the replies. Yeah, it comes down to a matter of "is it worth it?" Fun to think about though. The D16z6 makes 125 HP, so it's got a little more oomph than a 4AFE. Plus it's got VTAAAKK... lol. I was just saying that it can be built up with higher compression pistons, aftermarket cam, etc and make more than 125 HP.

I did consider a Honda K engine, which does spin the same way as a 4AFE. I was told it might be too big, being a newer engine for newer, larger cars, for my older wagon. I'd want to keep my stock AWD and its functionality, since it's the biggest reason I bought it in the first place (secondly that it's a wagon

). So whatever engine I choose would have to be mated with the AE95's drivetrain. It might be a little less difficult in that respect, except that there's the matter of the transfer case behind the engine. (A 4AGE block has to be ground down a bit to fit in front of that transfer case).

Same friend who said a K engine may not be a good choice suggested an Evo motor... hmm...

Evo_lucian · 05-01-2011, 06:05 PM

honda engine and toyota gearbox is pushing it. probably too expensive to ever consider.

gr91 · 05-01-2011, 06:45 PM

:O Personally Not a fan of Honda! I mean the styling -_- BUT! If You were to go forward with this build I Believe it would inspire many People to try to do something like this! Especially for those who are a fan of the h22! THAT would be an even more impressive build! But its much better if you get a couple hundred bucks out of that and pick up a 93 civic and throw this in there. Pretty good question asked though!

RogueMoog · 05-01-2011, 08:07 PM

Yeah, I just like to think outside the box. An H22 in my wagon would just be sick, though... I might have to think about the K series again sometime once I get its dimensions and have my 4AFE out (I plan on doing a minor rebuild of it someday anyway).

Evo_lucian · 05-02-2011, 07:22 AM

k series is still kinda pricey right now. Definitely out of budget for most ae92 owners.

Seen a k20 in a Mr2 spider before but that was a company built car, not a diy project

Like people who think out side the box but sometimes you have to talk dollars and cents. Also what's more practical.

With a Honda engine swap (if done cheaply) you gain a huge aftermarket support, and a dirt cheap engine to replace. On the other hand if the fab work needed to fit that engine in a corolla already costs an arm and a leg then that defeats the purpose of the swap.

If you cannot do the fab work cheaply, it might be in you best economical and logical interest to just buy a Honda.