build list

[jordanangel]

So I've been looking around for parts for my future 7age build for my prizm
and am looking for suggestions.

My build list

Top end:
Big port head smoothed out ports and cambers
Toda or HKS 264 duration cams
Adjustable cam gears
Toda or HKS uprated valve springs
Solid lifter conversion from Toyota 1sz
Titanium retainers and stainless steel valves from Paradise Racing

Bottom end:

7a block painted blue to match the car
Harden crank
Forged con rods from spool with
Wisco forged 10.5 comp pistons with .020 bore over
Balance rotating assembly to 7500 RPMs
ARP studs threw out the engine
Aluminum pulley kit
Kevlar Porsche 944 timing belt

Air, fuel and exhaust:

ITB's from silver or black top with 16 valve adapter
4-2-1 ceramic header
75mm-88mm long velocity stacks may go longer for more low end torque
Megasquirt
Small port injectors



Let me know what you think and this build will be for street use and street modified auto-X and maybe road rally or something to that effect. the list may change over time just wanted to hear what you guys think of the build idea and yes i know its gonna cost alot of $$$$ but this will be a build over time then swap in

[jordanangel]

bump

[MzKzM]

I know pleople have pulled that trick with the 6 bolt 7A crank but I would ga for a 8 bolt just to sleep a bit better at night. A flywheel on the loose at high revs will probabloy not be stopped by the bellhouse of the transmission.
I believe you van get a 7A or stroked 4A crank from arrowengineering. I myself have a 4ag crank from them of exquisite quality.
if you keep the revs under the 7500 you probablt won't need the dual valve springs so toda/HKS/TOMEI would indeed suffce.
Depending on camshaft lift you don't have to use shim under bucket, at those revs the weight factor is probably no problem.
I don't know if smallpost injectors are sufficient, how much HP dou you plan to make from this setup? And do you expect to pass emissions?

[jordanangel]

I didn't know someone made a 7a crank 8 bolt, i'll have to look into that.
I figured i didn't need dual valve springs since i'm not gonna rev it all that high and 7500 rpm's seemed like a good number. I wanted to do the solid lifters for reliability and not having to shim 16 times, I'm thinking about the the toda 264's with 9mm lift, and those need the shim under kit. I found a guy running stock big port injectors at 160 HP and said they had a little more room to run richer at only 182cc, so i thought small ports would be fine for 170-190 seeing as they are 235cc

[jordanangel]

couldn't find any forged 7a crank let alone one with an 8 bolt, anyone know where i could find one would be greatly appreciated, even with only 6 bolts i would be running ARP bolts not factory for sure

[MzKzM]

try: http://www.arrowprecision.co.uk/ it isn't a std part so be sure to ask for 8-bolts 7a crank

http://vacmotorsports.com/ also has the arrow items for sale.

Good luck!

[jordanangel]

so i contacted them and they said they don't stock that crank in ether 6 or 8 bolt and so they said i would need to send a sample in to have one made for the 7a with 8 bolt which is what i want to go with

[canadianae92]

the 7a crank is already forged and balanced, 6 bolt will be fine you can always get the arp flywheel bolts. Although I think a 7a would benifit from balancing I think it isn't necessary unless you are reving over 8000 rpm. I also think forged rods are a bit over kill.

if you want low end/mid range torque you should go with the smallport head, you can use the stock lifters unless you go over 8.5mm lift or reving 9000+

however it ENTIRELY depends on what you're going for, how much power you want to make, etc

if you are going for 14:1+ compression and reving it to 10,000 rpm, i would definitely get the forged rods, everything balanced etc

because you mentioned 264 deg cams i made my suggestions on that, because it sounds like you want it to be streetable, any streetable N/A 7age will probably survive with the original crank and rods, however some arp hardware would be a REALLY good idea, the weak link in the whole thing is the 7afe rod BOLTS

[toyotaspeed90]

there's mention of people using ARP hardware for the rods.... but they don't list it.... and when I asked those in the circles of those building 7age nobody knew the part number.

I think you should use a smallport head.... otherwise you'll have to either get an adapter or wire t-vis into MS... which with a 7age isn't necessary.

You should think about the pistons choice.... mine has stock smallport (10.3:1) pistons and a 7afe MLS head-gasket.... but when you add in the added stroke of the 7age it actually bumps the compression up to around 11.3:1-11.5:1..... and I'm on stock smallport cams..

I could only imagine 10.5:1 with 264 cams.... easily making 12:1 or higher.... you'll have a LOT of tuning to do....

for that high of compression smallport injectors are too small....

keep in mind you will need a 4age header and it will need to be modified.... best is to find one that can easily be extended down low.... you don't want the collector near or past the oil pan... otherwise you'll have to cut and reweld all 4 pipes... not a big deal but alignment could be annoying.

[jordanangel]

At canadianae92, I do plan on running 9 mm lift so lifter upgrades would be needed. I also might go farther with this engine like 8k-9k rpm's so i thought forged rods might be a good thing to add in while its apart but i might just stay with the stock rods and get bolts for them, if don't plan to go over 7500 rpm like I planned.


At toyotaspeed90, I heard once you go with a duration over 260 you wont need the tvis on the bigport, some guy runs 288's and says he removed the tvis running around 264's and benefited more removing it then keeping it. as for pistons I might just go with smallports seeing as it would bring me up to the 11's or so with the 7a block from what your saying. what size injectors would you suggest with a compression of 11.1:1 or higher? I do know i will have to modify or make a header for this build, but thanks for the heads up

[toyotaspeed90]

I'm running 315's on mine with the stock 4afe (modified) computer.

I ran 250's on this same setup (stock SP pistons, stock SP cams) when I was running it on MS...

t-vis is meant to help with low end torque due to the overly large intake ports.... having much larger cams this will only get accentuated down low. People remove t-vis because they believe it to be a restriction.... but not really.

t-vis wasn't in place in the s/c cars because the s/c gives boost immediately.... which creates gobs of torque (in comparison to n/a)... and probably because there wasn't room in there.

having the added displacement will help hide the negative effects of a bigport w/o t-vis.... but I would really recommend you go with a SP head.

[toyotaspeed90]

not to get too far off topic and you may already be aware but you will have to handle this like a 4age swap as well...

the alternator and power steering pump on the 4age are in opposite locations in a 4age vs a 4afe....

you will need all of the power steering parts (minus the rack) from an ae92 gts if you want to retain the PS.

If you retain PS you will 100% have to get the 4age uper and lower alternator mounts. If you use the 4afe alternator you will need to build an adapter to fit the 4age parts... as the 4afe alternator is clocked different. Otherwise you will need the 4age alternator as well.

If you decide to ditch the PS then you have to make 1 of 2 choices.... keep the 4afe alt on the exhaust side (in which you will have to fabricate an upper mount as the 4afe unit will not work on a 4age head) or go the 4age alternator route.

I chose no PS and alternator in the 4age location.

[canadianae92]

Originally Posted by jordanangel

At canadianae92, I do plan on running 9 mm lift so lifter upgrades would be needed. I also might go farther with this engine like 8k-9k rpm's so i thought forged rods might be a good thing to add in while its apart but i might just stay with the stock rods and get bolts for them, if don't plan to go over 7500 rpm like I planned.


At toyotaspeed90, I heard once you go with a duration over 260 you wont need the tvis on the bigport, some guy runs 288's and says he removed the tvis running around 264's and benefited more removing it then keeping it. as for pistons I might just go with smallports seeing as it would bring me up to the 11's or so with the 7a block from what your saying. what size injectors would you suggest with a compression of 11.1:1 or higher? I do know i will have to modify or make a header for this build, but thanks for the heads up

yea if u do 9 mm lift you need the lifter upgrade, I'm using the 1sz lifters in my 7age, forged rods would be fine for 8-9k depending on weight but if you go forged rods too might as well go for light forged pistons also arias or wiseco will do custom orders and at least for wiseco it isn't much more(you should figure out was sort of dome ccs would get you where you want compression wise)

For my 7age im using stock rods, crank, smallport pistons, small port head, my head was shaved a lot, i cc'd the chambers and all that got all the measurements for accurately calculation the cr and mine was about 13.5-14:1 static(before the cams) and about 10.5:1 dynamic i run on 94 octane pump gas. I rev it to 8000 and its aok so far, only 300kms tho.

but imo you should aim for about 9:1-10:1 dynamic compression for a street car, you can probably get within that with smallport pistons and the right hg thickness choice with the cams you are using but im not sure, gotta do the math

I had to make my own alternator bracket and do funny stuff with the timing belt because i used a 4age pump, use a 7afe oil pump, trust me

for the exhaust Im using a fgk header and the down pipe needed to be modified or it would rape my cv boot other than that it was like it was made for it

[jordanangel]

toyotaspeed90, I'll go with a smallport head like you and the others suggested, and yes I do know that I will have to go about it like a 4age swap and I do plan to run power steering on this set up unless I can find a way to make the rack turn easier with out power.

canadianae92, would H-beam rods be lighter then I-beam? but if so then maybe I wouldn't need lighter pistons or would you suggest still getting lighter ones. I was thinking 10.3-10.7:1 would be ok for street, keep in mind this car might become a track only with limited to no street driving, if I get another car to replace this as my DD then it will.where can I get the header you have? or do they not make them anymore.

[canadianae92]

Originally Posted by jordanangel

toyotaspeed90, I'll go with a smallport head like you and the others suggested, and yes I do know that I will have to go about it like a 4age swap and I do plan to run power steering on this set up unless I can find a way to make the rack turn easier with out power.

canadianae92, would H-beam rods be lighter then I-beam? but if so then maybe I wouldn't need lighter pistons or would you suggest still getting lighter ones. I was thinking 10.3-10.7:1 would be ok for street, keep in mind this car might become a track only with limited to no street driving, if I get another car to replace this as my DD then it will.where can I get the header you have? or do they not make them anymore.

For my rack, its still a power steering rack, but I took it apart and lubed it with grease, I think I took out a couple power steering rubber pressure seals. Its a bit tough to turn at a stop but once you're moving it turns easy, even at a slow roll but it isn't power steering. I gave up power steering and a/c to save weight.

Yea typically h beam rods are lighter, and if you go with forged rods id suggest going with forged pistons just because if you're reducing rotating mass you might as well go the whole way. If you go for around 10:3-10.7:1 DYNAMIC compression you should still be able to run on pump gas especially with efi, i can run on 94 octane without pinging and my engine is carbed and 10.5:1 dynamic and 13.5:1 static. With that high of compression though your engine will run a lot hotter and if theres any pointy surfaces on the piston you might get detonation(wiseco's standard piston dome comes to a pretty sharp point). Part of the reason I was ok with using std smallport pistons is they dont have any sort of real point to their dome.

One thing I have to really stress about doing a 7age is you absolutely have to do the math!! Find out as accurately as possible what the projected static and dynamic compression is going to be.