Megasquirting the ae92

[toyotaspeed90]

It has begun.


I'm too used to aw11's.... getting the engine harness out was a true PITA in the AE92. Required lower dash sections on both sides, glove box, door trim, lower kick panels, radio, radio bezel, center console and heater control surround to all come out... just to get to the 3 plugs under/behind the ash tray.

Harness is almost stripped of all the factory looming & tape.


After that the harness will be cut down to the bare basics for the chasis needs..... then need to find my way to a junkyard to get an edis wheel, a vr sensor, and a coilpack set.

Wiring will commence and it shouldn't take long to have it started. I already have a 7age map as well... so that helps.

[eage8]

I think we my have had this discussion before but, why are you using an EDIS wheel?

[toyotaspeed90]

because I don't like leaky 4age distributors....

parts are cheap. wiring is easy.... and this MS is older than dirt.....

[rdyzz]

nice, keep more info comming, i've been looking at MS for somtime and using the ford EDIS. i thought about using the T3 wheel since it has the correct amount of teeths also.

[jmaz87]

thanks for starting this thread Thom i have been looking at this since before the PNP's were out even... i have had cold feet because there are still a lot of "holes" as far as what is already known to work etc...

im assuming ur using an old MS1 8x8 pcb 3 or something very old like that but i still want to ask more current questions since ur the only person i know that has experience with toyota MS projects.

i have been looking into the ms3 lately because of its flexibility. I didn't want to go stand-alone until i could run fully sequential fuel and spark.
from what i've read the factory Dizzy signal isn't enough info for MS to know exactly where everything is and obv just a crank signal is only good for batch because its 2 cam rev so u don't know which stroke ur on...

i think MS3 can use both signals to then extrapolate positions well enough for sequential to be poss. of course injectors would need to be re-wired but the whole harness gets chopped just like MS1 which is why it's semi-relevant.

[jmaz87]

any info or pics on 7A harness is always helpful.
i have been staring at a cherry 7A in my garage for the last 3 years because i've been too afraid to try Frankentein'ing without more info..

I was just gonna pull another 7A 5spd harness from junkyard but haven't had a day off in forever and i have 2 aw11's that take up too much time...

how do u thing a 7AG would handle in a 2? i figured it wasn't worth the trouble but i'm an all or nothing sort of guy.

[jmaz87]

[toyotaspeed90]

I'm going to guess that MS3, if it has the capability for full sequential, that it will have at least 2 types of cam and/or crank sensors..... depending on the way it's set up it could be one of each or both on one.... either way they will have to read different wheels.

One of the problems with running a stock dizzy is that you actually have a lower resolution of what's being fed to the MS...... there's been some talk about the differences between the toyota dizzy (which has 4? teeth which means there's only 1 tooth for every 90* of cam rotation.... which is still 45* of crank rotation.... but a 36-1 on the crank gives 10* of separation between the teeth....)

Now... to completely obliterate what I just said about resolution... why do you feel you need to run full sequential injection? Lots of cars make LOTS of power on batch setups.... and tons of new/newer cars run exceptionally well on a waste spark setup..... When you end up multipying out and factoring the variance between each injector is fired you'll realize that.... where these smaller engines and turbo setups make more power (higher rpm's) that the gap will shorten the higher you rev and the 'need' for sequential is lower.

The batch fire that MS does is actually 2 separate banks.... the 4afe runs stupid simple batch fire (1 bank for all 4 injectors).... so when I wire my setups I group injectors.


As for the 7a.... you wouldn't want the 7a harness.... if you build a 7age (if that's what your plan is) then you need the 4age electronics..... the 4age head would be more dependant on the harness/ecu than the block would be. the added stroke of the 7a would just require a bit more fuel.

[toyotaspeed90]

As for my setup.....

This isn't a guide. This is what I've done. Don't mimic it if you don't understand at least 1/2 way what you're doing.


I finished unwrapping the harness today and started to cut... I build my harnesses for MS from relatively scratch. It's unnecessary but I believe it to be a smarter move. Wanna know why? Well.. .that's another topic in itself. IMHO if you want stand alone... don't go plug and play.


When you start to strip the harness down the goal is to keep the basics in tact:

Starter, charging, connectors to body (which includes starting/charging/gauge sensors)... so what what also left in there was the CSI setup (it's already wired through the STA wiring), coolant temp gauge sensor connector, oil pressure gauge sensor, and the radiator fan switch (which is REALLY odd wiring that Toyota did).

So what do you need for MS:
02, injectors, TPS, coolant temp sensor, air intake temp sensor, ignition

What can be removed from the harness and discarded:
TPS sensor (if using a 4age head then you will need a 4age tps and connector... my 3 wire 4afe tps connector was cut out), 02 sensor (4afe uses a 2 wire and MS uses a 1 wire... I will buy a new o2), diag port, map harness, ignition wiring (all... dizzy/ignitor).

Be wary when you cut the diag port.... in the ae92, oddly enough, they run through the body harness. The fuel pump wire you need for MS is the blue wire incorporated here.... there's a ground and 3 more wires (IG-... which I'm going to guess is the tach, te1 and 1 more.... I didn't mark these other 2 other than 'diag port' for now... I'm guessing they won't be necessary at all).


Cut all of the connectors you need for MS (in my case it's just injectors, coolant temp sensor connector and air temp sensor connector..... be careful to verify that you're cutting the correct coolant temp sensor out as one is directly tied to the STA/CSI circuit... leave that in place).


Car in question:


Engine (note adj cam gears and the 2 piece oil pan... this is an 11.3:1 "smallport" 7age):



harness after unwrapping:


removed and can be discarded:


what is left of the harness and the pigtails:



getting the harness out of the car and to this point is about 3 hours... only because the ae92 appears to be a PITA.... much more difficult than an AW11.

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by jmaz87

any info or pics on 7A harness is always helpful.
i have been staring at a cherry 7A in my garage for the last 3 years because i've been too afraid to try Frankentein'ing without more info..

I was just gonna pull another 7A 5spd harness from junkyard but haven't had a day off in forever and i have 2 aw11's that take up too much time...

how do u thing a 7AG would handle in a 2? i figured it wasn't worth the trouble but i'm an all or nothing sort of guy.

if you want to make a fun AW11 then swap in an sw20 5sfe/s54.....

compared to a 7age:

Pros:
more power
more torque
runs on cheap pump gas
will probably run being driven ridiculously hard to 300k miles
millions of 5sfe engines available for uber cheap

Cons:
not as rev happy (but a 7age isn't as rev happy as a 4age, either)
requires a lot more fabrication to get in (though mine was done w/o cutting the chasis mounts out)


If you're looking at auto-x.... a 7age is classed the same as a 5sfe.... even my ae92 that has all corolla parts is considered SMF just because of the 7age.... which is the same as the AW11 with a 5sfe..... the 7age in the ae92 was sort of just 'thrown together' because it's what I had......

[eage8]

Originally Posted by jmaz87

im assuming ur using an old MS1 8x8 pcb 3 or something very old like that but i still want to ask more current questions since ur the only person i know that has experience with toyota MS projects.

thanks :P

I'm running my car with sequential injection on the stock cam/crank sensors, but the 20V distributor has a VR sensor instead of the 16V's hall sensor.

I just looked at my config (it's been forever since I've messed with it) and it looks like my cam wheel is a 24-1 wheel so at crank speeds that's 48-2... which isn't bad and better than 36-1.

Do you guys know what the 4agze CAS is? It might be nice to use one of those on a 16v head...

[eage8]

after some googling it looks like the big port dizzy is the one that has 4 teeth. But the small port dizzy and the 4agze CAS both have 24-1 VR sensors in them.

[jmaz87]

hahaha sorry mike!!! i could have sworn the 4age dizzy is a VR sensor... ur sure its hall??

hmmm and the small port dizzy should bolt right up to large-port head right???
originally i was looking for the CAS from gze for this exact reason...

Thom thanks for all the info!!! i was referring to MS3 being able to accept 2 inputs for added resolution.
EX: using a 36-1 wheel along with the dizzy 4/1 to give MS resolution and the ability to know which stroke its on etc.

does this make sense???

[jmaz87]

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

As for the 7a.... you wouldn't want the 7a harness.... if you build a 7age (if that's what your plan is) then you need the 4age electronics..... the 4age head would be more dependant on the harness/ecu than the block would be. the added stroke of the 7a would just require a bit more fuel.

i had a brain fart.. and its funny cuz i already got another large-port harness from an aw11 specifically to hack up and forgot.. lol

[aux]

i know this is an old thread.

however, as a multiple s13 owner and previous owner of a frankenbuilt ae92 gt-s, what in gods name is up with those silvia halos on the front of that ae92. are they just test mounted or are they actually implanted like that?

also, i have been getting back to my old self recently, and have a desire to build a 7age again. how long did yours last?