4agze motor w/ 4age trans - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

rideabike07 · 01-05-2012, 10:41 PM

just wondering if i could use a 4age transmission with a 4agze motor?

Donald · 01-06-2012, 08:04 PM

I have heard of that being done on daily drivers, and them lasting for many miles, but it is not recommended if you are going to stomp on the gas.
There is reason that Toyota decided to use that heavier gearbox while trying to mak the car faster.
You will also need to use the 4A-GE clutch if you do that, and that won't last too long either if you stomp on it. ............. I know you'r gonna stomp on it.

I can't help myself either.

toyotaspeed90 · 01-07-2012, 10:37 AM

our aw11 was fine.... it had an ae101 gze on MS with an 89 gts c52 and a stock clutch. that car ran everything from crappy everyday tires to running on a hot day with 60 treadwear auto-x tires and hard launches.

the weakpoint is the axles.....

Donald · 01-07-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

our aw11 was fine.... it had an ae101 gze on MS with an 89 gts c52 and a stock clutch. that car ran everything from crappy everyday tires to running on a hot day with 60 treadwear auto-x tires and hard launches.

the weakpoint is the axles.....

Good to know.

So, did you break axles?

toyotaspeed90 · 01-09-2012, 04:28 PM

no, I didn't actually.

Axles on MR2's are notorious for coming apart because they're a 2 piece axle that are held together by 6 studs & nuts.... if you don't use threadlocker upon reinstall the nuts back off, and the axle can come apart -- which at the same time can cause the axle to shatter, spin and/or hit the trans and break the trans open (I had that happen). When it happened to me it happened pulling out of a parking space in an n/a car.

On the s/c car I used nuts with locking nylon and threadlocker.... PITA to get off, but never backed themselves out.

Donald · 01-09-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

no, I didn't actually.

Axles on MR2's are notorious for coming apart because they're a 2 piece axle that are held together by 6 studs & nuts.... if you don't use threadlocker upon reinstall the nuts back off, and the axle can come apart -- which at the same time can cause the axle to shatter, spin and/or hit the trans and break the trans open (I had that happen). When it happened to me it happened pulling out of a parking space in an n/a car.

On the s/c car I used nuts with locking nylon and threadlocker.... PITA to get off, but never backed themselves out.

Aaah!
Nice to know. The original axles on the FX-16 were that two piece setup. Might be the same part as the N/A MR2.

toyotaspeed90 · 01-10-2012, 04:09 PM

could be.... ae92's don't have them.

and I wouldn't be surprised if it's just some internet rumor that the C series aren't strong enough and people translate the axle coming apart to being "weak". If I recall correctly there was another local auto-x MR2 making 230whp and 220ft/tq (at the wheels) on a C series.

Donald · 01-10-2012, 07:19 PM

Yeah, but the GZE makes a lot of torque.
Horse power is probably not the concern, as the 20V engines make as much as the GZE, but not that low end, stump pulling torque.

toyotaspeed90 · 01-12-2012, 03:23 PM

yeah but Toyota WAY overbuilds their stuff.... it's not like a 95 blazer AT trans that can barely pull it's own weight after 50k miles.....

the E51 has the same internals as the SW20 turbo trans, which are good to at least 500whp....

the C series is fine with a GZE.

rdyzz · 01-12-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

no, I didn't actually.

Axles on MR2's are notorious for coming apart because they're a 2 piece axle that are held together by 6 studs & nuts.... if you don't use threadlocker upon reinstall the nuts back off, and the axle can come apart -- which at the same time can cause the axle to shatter, spin and/or hit the trans and break the trans open (I had that happen). When it happened to me it happened pulling out of a parking space in an n/a car.

On the s/c car I used nuts with locking nylon and threadlocker.... PITA to get off, but never backed themselves out.

oh dang, this info is good to know since i will be using the same 2 pieace style axles in my 3sge swap. its 27lb-ft of tq i recall for those nuts. did you or have you ever seen anyone break those 6 studs off the aw11 axles?

Evo_lucian · 01-13-2012, 10:58 AM

4age or "C" series gearbox will be fine on 4agze. Mine held up fine. Have friends who drag their 20v, 7age etc with nitrous etc and none have destroyed any gearboxes.

RogueMoog · 01-13-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

yeah but Toyota WAY overbuilds their stuff.... it's not like a 95 blazer AT trans that can barely pull it's own weight after 50k miles.....

I think the same is true for the E57F5 on the Corolla All-Tracs. It was brought up recently in another topic that it can't handle a GE or GZE, but people have been throwing both into Corolla All-Tracs with no problems.

rideabike07 · 01-13-2012, 01:56 PM

another question for you guys, could i use my 4age trans with a 4afe motor??

Donald · 01-13-2012, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rideabike07

another question for you guys, could i use my 4age trans with a 4afe motor??

Not a good idea for the street.

Your engine will be turning 500 RPM more at 70 mph. That gearbox has a final drive that is calculated for a low-torque-high-revving engine (4A-GE). The 4A-FE is a high-torque-low-revving engine, compared to the GE, so the FE will start running out of breath at a lower road speed.
If you use the car only for autocross, it might work out ok.

Donald · 01-14-2012, 06:12 PM

Today, for the first time, I took note of the engine speed/road speed ratio in my FX (4A-GZE engine and gearbox).
At 70 mph, the 4A-GZE engine is turning approximately 2700 RPM (matching gearbox).
If my memory serves me right, the 4A-GE in my GT-S was turning 3700 RPM at 70 mph
The 7A-FE with its matching gearbox turns 3150 RPM at 70 mph.

That makes me think that the reason that Toyota used that (heavy) gearbox with the GZE, was to maximize the low end torque, and increase the top speed potential, with a lower final drive ratio.

Maybe they thought the GZE might not be a high volume seller, so they didn't want to invest in re-engineering the "C" gearbox for an even lower final drive ratio, having this other gearbox already available, and considering that they were probably planning the 20V at the same time.
It's all about the $$$$$$$$....................Just guessing.