1992 Corolla 5 speed jerking/bucking/surging - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums


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6th Generation (1988-1992) Specific discussion of the AE92

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Old 08-01-2012, 07:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question 1992 Corolla 5 speed jerking/bucking/surging

1992 Corolla 5 speed manual transmission. 4A-FE w/150k mi.

I recently went to get my car smogged and they had to abort the test due to my car bucking on the dyno when held at 15mph in second gear.

I've owned this car for about two years (purchased @ 120k mi.) and either I didn't ever really notice this issue when I first got it (this is my first manual tranny car) or it came on gradually.

Upon my own inspection I did not find any broken or cracked hoses and diagnostics gives no fault codes.

My inkling was (and still is) that it has something to do with fuel delivery because while the jerking/bucking issue only shows up at certain speeds, it only happens at those speeds when I am barely giving gas. However, I figured there are so many things it could be that I wanted to have it checked out rather than replacing parts one by one.

I took it to the local Toyota dealership proper to have it diagnosed and they reported that they couldn't find any faults other than the engine front motor mount being destroyed and the LH axel's outer CV boot was torn (and the joint had some play). They said that fixing these issues might not even resolve the problem, so it was up to me to decide whether I wanted to do anything about it. Here is the diagnosis they gave me verbatim:

"Condition can be duplicated @15MPH in 2nd gear - Verified complaint. Vehicle surges during driving in second gear usually with foot off of gas.
Performed visual inspection. Found front motor mount torn. Left axle shaft has play. Boot is open.
Checked for codes - none found.
Checked and adjusted timing and idle. Timing: 10BTDC. Idle: 800RPM. They were slightly off.
Checked O2 sensor. Crosscounting normal.
Checked suspension for play. OK.
Recommend replacing engine front and rear mounts and left axle shaft as a first step.
No guaranty this is going to eliminate the entire issue. Potential play inside of transmission amplifying condition."

They provided me with a list of part numbers for what all needed replacing and I ordered them from http://www.toyotapartscheap.com/

Yesterday I replaced the front mount and the LH axle and besides the throttle response being a little more solid there was no change in the bucking issue.

I just realized I haven't changed any of the spark delivery components (plugs, wires, etc.) so maybe that might be a place to start. Next place to look would be injectors? Fuel filter?

Anybody have any similar issues or have any good suggestions as to what to inspect or replace?
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Does your car have a throttle position sensor? Sorry, I'm out of the loop.

Was just reading in the 2000 era Celica manual that a loose or broken TPS can cause an unstable idle. All you have to do is look at it to check.

Fixing the axle and mounts may have reduced the shaking of the TPS.
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yes, my car has a TPS, however my idle is fine. This issue only occurs when the car is in motion.
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I don't think the Celica manual meant that a broken/loose TPS will only cause unstable idle. That's just one way you will notice it.

Worth looking at since it's so easy to do. Touch. Look.
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Old 08-02-2012, 04:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Does your engine have a EGR valve? Assume you have a 4AFE and generally they didn't have them unless engine had California emission equip which I see is where you are located.If so would try cleaning the valve and checking all the attaching vac lines for leaks.
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My TPS seems to be operating normally, here's a vid:
http://youtu.be/LZi9tppu-7A

I also drove around with the TPS disconnected and still had the same issues described in the OP.

Yes, my car is CA emissions equipped with an EGR… I'll have to have a look at that over the weekend. Just remove and clean it out? Anything I should know about that process?








Another question came up as I removed the throttle body today…

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Old 08-02-2012, 07:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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This link gives a general description on the egr and associated plumbing on a toy. If you have a vac guage can probably perform that test. The rest of tests probably only apply to newer vehicles.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h61.pdf
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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thanks for that vid. Your tps is different from the one referred to in the Celica manual. Yours is a switch, the Celica one is a continuously variable sensor. Definitely not the issue with you.

I don't know what goes through that pipe. Curious, though...
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Unmetered air leak. Check the hose between the AFM & the throttle body for cracks or loose clamps. Happened to me on my 88 AE92...
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I am having the same issue, I will be watching this thread closely....
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:21 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b3atboxjr View Post
My TPS seems to be operating normally, here's a vid:
http://youtu.be/LZi9tppu-7A

I also drove around with the TPS disconnected and still had the same issues described in the OP.

Yes, my car is CA emissions equipped with an EGR… I'll have to have a look at that over the weekend. Just remove and clean it out? Anything I should know about that process?








Another question came up as I removed the throttle body today…

The throttle body pic where the coolant runs through the connections is used to elevate idle when car is cold to keep from stalling. There is a large port (just ahead of throttle plate) that when you put your finger over it when engine running and cold you should feel vacuum. (It bleeds air to elevate idle) . Once the engine is warmed up the coolant running through those connections shuts it off.
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:01 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
The throttle body pic where the coolant runs through the connections is used to elevate idle when car is cold to keep from stalling. There is a large port (just ahead of throttle plate) that when you put your finger over it when engine running and cold you should feel vacuum. (It bleeds air to elevate idle) . Once the engine is warmed up the coolant running through those connections shuts it off.
Maybe that circuit should be investigated.

The problem, says OP, occurs just off idle.

So, maybe the bucking is the ECM sensing or causing that circuit to turn on/off erratically?

Or, maybe something similar with the MAP sensor? Does the car have one? MAF?

What happens when you disconnect the MAP or MAF?

Vacuum leak check?

For $20 or a trip to the library, Haynes has good component-checking protocols.

You might also be able to find a Factory Shop Manual online.

Seeing as you are hands-on motivated and capable.

I recently was linked to a Cellica and a 2004 Corolla full FSM:
http://repair-manuals.blogspot.com/2...ir-manual.html
http://j77.co.uk/hosting/forums/www....opmanual_1.pdf
http://j77.co.uk/hosting/forums/www....opmanual_2.pdf
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:31 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The 5th one down is the Haynes manual pdf (84 - 92 Corolla):
http://www.filecrop.com/Toyota-Corol...ir-Manual.html

I downloaded it and it's OK (not malicious).

Last edited by shockley; 08-04-2012 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 08-11-2012, 01:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The issue was cut down significantly after I cleaned out the EGR valve, so much so, that I was confident enough to drive back to the smog shop to get it tested. Unfortunately they were closed til this upcoming monday… I'll keep y'all posted.

I'll still notice the surging pretty subtly, so the problem hasn't been completely eliminated. Perhaps the spark plugs, wires, cap n rotor will help (when I get around to doing those!)…

Before:



After:
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Old 08-20-2012, 12:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Huzah!

I passed smog last Friday!
Again, while the bucking issue has been mitigated, it is still not completely gone. More updates to come…

Here are the smog results from when I got the car two years ago:


And here are my smog results from two days ago:



My car did better in EVERY category… but other than cleaning the EGR valve and using it as my DD, I've done nothing to it. Could those two facts have really made the results this much better?

I am also wondering who can explain what "HC" (hydrocarbons?) is and what I can do to keep them down? I'm so close to the max! Would it require getting a new cat?

Thanks!
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