to those who have done the project, is the 7AGE worth all the effort of building it?
i have been planning to do an engine swap for my ae92 for quite some time now and the 7AGE is part of my consideration list. other choices include the BT 20v and the 3SGTE. however, the 3SGTE seems to be a very expensive project and being a heavy engine, it most probably will disrupt the front-rear balance of the ae92 (as the 3S engine wasn't really built for the AE body). that's why i considered the 7AGE, thinking that i might get more power out of it compared to a straight out BT engine swap. this is to also make way for a possible turbo installation in the future (7AGTE).
so what do you think? i really need some advice on this one.
I'd hardly call that "in detail." Personally, I'm interested in making a 7AGE 20v ('cause I could keep half of my current engine) and would certainly like more detail than "it's a pain." So yeah, I'm curious as well OP. From what I've seen, the results are pretty sick, but I'm too lazy to bother with comparing that to other engines.
Had you actually read through the thread I posted, you would have realized that there are members here who are actually in the midst of building 7A-GEs posting their feedback.
If you require more in detail information, I suggest you take the time to contact those members via PM.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBO Das Automagazin
A BRZ, a curvy mountain road makes one liter of happiness hormones.
My apologies, however, throughout the entire thread there were only a few posts I saw that touched briefly on the mechanical nightmare building a 7AGE would be.
My apologies, however, throughout the entire thread there were only a few posts I saw that touched briefly on the mechanical nightmare building a 7AGE would be.
now that sounds scary.... makes me have second thoughts.....
large port meaning you used the 16v 4AGE head right? did you do any modifications to the 7A block?
i just wanted to know how easy (or hard) it is to build the 7AGE and how much would it cost.
how is the response and power compared to other engines, say the 4AGE blacktop or the 3SGE/3SGTE? i hear that the 7AGE has low to midrange torque...
i'm planning for an engine swap and the 7AGE is one of my considerations. i'm also thinking of adding turbo in the near future.
Yes I used a large port/bigport head from an 87' MR2. I didn't actually assemble the motor, I had it done at Wagamon Bros. of Columbia Heights, MN. I took out the original 7A-FE that was in the car, disassembled it, bought the GE head from the MR2, bought a pair of WebCam #577 camshafts, Fidanza adjustable cam gears, went to Wagamon Bros. and gave them all the parts. They took apart the entire block (which I hadn't done), threw away the original pistons and rods, cleaned everything, balanced the crank, the new rods, and the new pistons, replaced every part of the valvetrain and installed and timed the new cams...whew. I probably could have done it for less money on my own but I wanted it to be done professionally.
Putting the new 7A-GE in the car was easy. Just the reverse of installation with a few exceptions. I had to make a couple of my own parts and I had a few machined. Because the alternator is mounted on the head on the 7A-FE you have to move it. I know there exists an alternator bracket that will fit the alternator on the back of the engine, but I couldn't find one so I found a big hunk of aluminum, made my own mounting and adjusting brackets, took out the A/C, and fixed my new pieces to the block. The cooling system will need a little work too. You may or may not have to do this but I machined my own thermostat housing because I couldn't find the right parts at the junkyard and I just kinda wanted to do it.
I have all the reciepts for all my purchases from the bill from Wagamon Bros. down to every trip to the hardware store to pick up a few nuts and bolts, I just haven't added them all up yet... As an estimate it's probably been a good 3 to 4 grand with all the parts that I've put into the engine alone. The total cost of everything that I've put into the whole car well exceeds double the bluebook of the car.
As of right now the engine basically has no tune. It runs, but not well so I think giving you an idea of what the performance is like may be a little preemptive. The times that it's cooperated enough to let me take it out for a little while, it feels like it has no power from 1K to 2750 rpm. Then it livens up a lot and has a good amount of power. I don't know how much because I haven't dynoed it yet. I've never driven or ridden in a car that had a blacktop 20V or a 3S-G(T)E so I can't give you a comparison on that.
I'm also planning on adding a turbo to my setup once I've put a couple thousand on the new motor. I've already started buying parts to do it!
I hope this helps a little bit. Kind of a long answer to a couple of short questions.
Yes I used a large port/bigport head from an 87' MR2. I didn't actually assemble the motor, I had it done at Wagamon Bros. of Columbia Heights, MN. I took out the original 7A-FE that was in the car, disassembled it, bought the GE head from the MR2, bought a pair of WebCam #577 camshafts, Fidanza adjustable cam gears, went to Wagamon Bros. and gave them all the parts. They took apart the entire block (which I hadn't done), threw away the original pistons and rods, cleaned everything, balanced the crank, the new rods, and the new pistons, replaced every part of the valvetrain and installed and timed the new cams...whew. I probably could have done it for less money on my own but I wanted it to be done professionally.
Putting the new 7A-GE in the car was easy. Just the reverse of installation with a few exceptions. I had to make a couple of my own parts and I had a few machined. Because the alternator is mounted on the head on the 7A-FE you have to move it. I know there exists an alternator bracket that will fit the alternator on the back of the engine, but I couldn't find one so I found a big hunk of aluminum, made my own mounting and adjusting brackets, took out the A/C, and fixed my new pieces to the block. The cooling system will need a little work too. You may or may not have to do this but I machined my own thermostat housing because I couldn't find the right parts at the junkyard and I just kinda wanted to do it.
I have all the reciepts for all my purchases from the bill from Wagamon Bros. down to every trip to the hardware store to pick up a few nuts and bolts, I just haven't added them all up yet... As an estimate it's probably been a good 3 to 4 grand with all the parts that I've put into the engine alone. The total cost of everything that I've put into the whole car well exceeds double the bluebook of the car.
As of right now the engine basically has no tune. It runs, but not well so I think giving you an idea of what the performance is like may be a little preemptive. The times that it's cooperated enough to let me take it out for a little while, it feels like it has no power from 1K to 2750 rpm. Then it livens up a lot and has a good amount of power. I don't know how much because I haven't dynoed it yet. I've never driven or ridden in a car that had a blacktop 20V or a 3S-G(T)E so I can't give you a comparison on that.
I'm also planning on adding a turbo to my setup once I've put a couple thousand on the new motor. I've already started buying parts to do it!
I hope this helps a little bit. Kind of a long answer to a couple of short questions.
ey thanks for the inputs! answers like these do help a lot. from what you said, it seems that a 7AGE/7AGTE project is very tricky...
so what rods and pistons did you use? what if the 20v head is used for the 7A block?
ey thanks for the inputs! answers like these do help a lot. from what you said, it seems that a 7AGE/7AGTE project is very tricky...
so what rods and pistons did you use? what if the 20v head is used for the 7A block?
I probably shouldn't have done this but I had new stock 7A-FE pistons and rods balanced and installed. I really should have spent the extra $$$ and bought custom rods from Pauter or some place like that. Heck, I planned ahead with every other part of the car...
It is a tricky project and it will probably take a good amount of mechanical know how but like I've said in other threads, the end result is looking like it will be pretty fantastic if it all comes together the way I want it to. It's really rewarding to put some time and effort into an engine and hear/see it turn over for the first few revs. Especially if its a hybrid motor like the 7A-GE. Again, I can't tell you much about the 20V heads. I've never even seen one in person. From what I've read about doing a 20V 7A-GE, it poses different problems to tackle than the 16V does. I also couldn't tell you if those problems are harder or easier. If you want to do a hybrid motor and you want your setup to be clean and last a while, plan on spending a good amount of cash. Is there anything else that I can help you with? Pictures? A more detailed explanation of something?
I probably shouldn't have done this but I had new stock 7A-FE pistons and rods balanced and installed. I really should have spent the extra $$$ and bought custom rods from Pauter or some place like that. Heck, I planned ahead with every other part of the car...
It is a tricky project and it will probably take a good amount of mechanical know how but like I've said in other threads, the end result is looking like it will be pretty fantastic if it all comes together the way I want it to. It's really rewarding to put some time and effort into an engine and hear/see it turn over for the first few revs. Especially if its a hybrid motor like the 7A-GE. Again, I can't tell you much about the 20V heads. I've never even seen one in person. From what I've read about doing a 20V 7A-GE, it poses different problems to tackle than the 16V does. I also couldn't tell you if those problems are harder or easier. If you want to do a hybrid motor and you want your setup to be clean and last a while, plan on spending a good amount of cash. Is there anything else that I can help you with? Pictures? A more detailed explanation of something?
again thanks for the help. i really appreciate it. ya pictures would be great. why don't you post some of your pics in this thread? you might even have some pictures of when your engine was still being built.
i'm actually interested in building a 7AGE 20v and i'm curious what it takes to do this. with your 7AGE, what exactly did you change with the block to match the head? and what did you change in the head to match the block?
Ok here's some pics of my install... I didn't take as many before and after shots as I would have liked. They're arranged in a kind of time-line of events fashion.
So there it is... The 16v head bolts right up to the block and no modification was necessary to either to get them to work. I used a PORSCHE 924 timing belt because the 7A-FE and the 4A-GE belts were too small. I also used the crank timing gear from a 4A-GE. If you're going to mention something about the way the coilovers are installed, yes it's incorrect. I've since fixed them but I haven't taken pictures of it that way.
Last edited by Dorfinator; 12-11-2008 at 06:50 PM.
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