XRS Poll and Debate

[Exage]

First off, I know things can get out of hands on a car vs. car thread. So be civilized.

I want to hear some of your opinions between these two cars: 9th Gen (2005-2006) Corolla XRS and 10th Gen (2009+) Corolla XRS.

As the owner of a 05 XRS I'm biast. I looked at the reviews of the the new 09 XRS and was dissapointed to a degree. Sure it's a nice car, but where's the lunacy. You can argue that more people can buy the car because it's easier to live with and can be equipt with a automatic transmission. However I think Toyota lost a step with this new model by making it main stream and the loss of a good light weight performance engine.

I would be thinking differently if say they had thrown a turbo on the 2.4 and had the power cranking about 210 (2AZ-GTE anyone?). When you look at the other performance models from other companies you see hp numbers near or above 200hp. Such machines: Sentra SE-R Spec V, Mazdaspeed 3, GTI, WRX (sans STI), SI, Cobalt SS SC, SRT-4. I just think that they lost this round or should have just made the XRS the S version.

Thoughts anyone?

[GatoradeBoy]

I agree with you. But I love my '09 XRS and so far it has never not done its job when I needed it. But once it is paid off you better believe I will be buying a Convertible Camaro SS or a 370Z for my summer car

[PhatRoyale]

I also agree. It's dissapointing for enthusiasts like myself.

[Exage]

Originally Posted by GatoradeBoy

I agree with you. But I love my '09 XRS and so far it has never not done its job when I needed it.

You have a point. It's by no means a slow car. I also bet it's 10X better to drive through the city with aswell.

I hope Toyota/Yamaha is cooking up a nice engine for us in the near future. Come guts, come glory!

[joeyicu]

power loss = suckfest

i would take a 9th gen any day of the week

[silver04rollas]

Cannot add much more. 9th gen is proving to be the tuner and enthusiast's choice with the aftermarket and kicking some serious RSX-S and Civic SI behind while the 10thgen is becoming the choice of people who want more power and especially torque than a regular Corolla or Civic to drive around the city with some sportiness.

[joeyicu]

it seems like with the Toyota pcm situation that that always has and always will hinder the potential for the aftermarket to blossom and allow for a large selection for parts to come out for cars

it would be nice if someone made pcm/ecu/ecm's for sale to juice the cars up, but from what ive seen about corollas, only a handful of there cars have had this happen

what would be even more glorious would be the allowing of piggybacking to tune the car, ford does this with almost all there stuff and its beautiful

[joeyicu]

on another note where the matrix xrs'just as quick as the corolla xrs'?

and did the gts celica's run as good or better then the corolla xrs'

im a big fan of the 2zz, id like to get something with the motor in it

[Exage]

Originally Posted by joeyicu

on another note where the matrix xrs'just as quick as the corolla xrs'?

and did the gts celica's run as good or better then the corolla xrs'

im a big fan of the 2zz, id like to get something with the motor in it

It comes down to weight between the cars. I'm not sure about the Matrix, but I have a feeling the Corolla is a tad faster/lighter, but not by much. And IMO I think the Corolla looks better .

The Celica GT-S is lighter than the both the XRS's. I think it's 1/2 second quicker to 60MPH. However be wary of some of the earlier 2ZZ-GE engines (GT-S). I was made aware on these forums of the lift bolts breaking causing the car to loose its lift operation. And if the rocker shaft rotates out a little bit when it's sheared, you're going under the hood for a bit.

[silver04rollas]

Originally Posted by Exage

It comes down to weight between the cars. I'm not sure about the Matrix, but I have a feeling the Corolla is a tad faster/lighter, but not by much. And IMO I think the Corolla looks better .

The Celica GT-S is lighter than the both the XRS's. I think it's 1/2 second quicker to 60MPH. However be wary of some of the earlier 2ZZ-GE engines (GT-S). I was made aware on these forums of the lift bolts breaking causing the car to loose its lift operation. And if the rocker shaft rotates out a little bit when it's sheared, you're going under the hood for a bit.

You are completely off buddy. Having racing experience with these cars, I can tell.

For one, the lift bolts issues was only in the 2000 - 2002 Celica GTS and was recalled for fixes.

2ZZ-GE Corolla XRS and Matrix XRS are quite far apart because of almost 200 pounds weight difference (2650 lbs vs 2850 lbs).

Both Corolla XRS and Celica GTS have identical tested 7.0 secs 0-60 stock. Corolla XRS is a very close race with Celica GTS (non-2002 or non-2005 with the lower rev limit at 7700 rpm were much slower) because their weight difference is only 130 pounds (2522 lbs vs 2650 lbs) and the 2003+ Celica GTS came with drive by wire throttle system, which makes it dyno actually less than Corolla XRS.

[Exage]

Originally Posted by silver04rollas

You are completely off buddy. Having racing experience with these cars, I can tell.

For one, the lift bolts issues was only in the 2000 - 2002 Celica GTS and was recalled for fixes.

2ZZ-GE Corolla XRS and Matrix XRS are quite far apart because of almost 200 pounds weight difference (2650 lbs vs 2850 lbs).

Both Corolla XRS and Celica GTS have identical tested 7.0 secs 0-60 stock. Corolla XRS is a very close race with Celica GTS (non-2002 or non-2005 with the lower rev limit at 7700 rpm were much slower) because their weight difference is only 130 pounds (2522 lbs vs 2650 lbs) and the 2003+ Celica GTS came with drive by wire throttle system, which makes it dyno actually less than Corolla XRS.

I know that car and driver tested the XRS at 7.0 seconds @ 60. I was under the impression that that was a unbelievable run and that it's actually around 7.5 for a decent run. However it does seem like it would be a close race seeing now that the Celica times at around 7.35 seconds.

Without a doubt, the 2ZZ-GE is great in any of the 3 cars.

[silver04rollas]

Originally Posted by Exage

I know that car and driver tested the XRS at 7.0 seconds @ 60. I was under the impression that that was a unbelievable run and that it's actually around 7.5 for a decent run. However it does seem like it would be a close race seeing now that the Celica times at around 7.35 seconds.

Without a doubt, the 2ZZ-GE is great in any of the 3 cars.

Actually, the Car and driver run was slower for the best run since it was conducted on a unbroken-in XRS with low miles and on a high altitude (mountain region), which is why it only got 15.8 in the 1/4 mile while in reality XRS bone stock runs 15.2 - 15.3 secs in the 1/4 mile at the drag strip. Motor Trend also got 15.3@92 mph.

I actually ran 14.9 secs@96 mph at the dragstrip with only intake/exhaust on and the 0-60 roughly translates to 6.7 - 6.8 secs launching from 4400 - 4800 rpm. Anyway, there are much faster tuned N/A XRS now with over 190 wheel HP (225 - 230 HP@ crank) that can run 13s and take down tuned K20 Civic SI and RSX-S.

[joeyicu]

well i want a 2zz powered car, and i think it will end up costing more to throw one in my 8th gen, then to buy one of the 3 cars powered by it

so bottom line, for someone concerned with power because i like all 3 cars pretty much equally, witch car would you take?

witch cars have the lower rev limiter silver04rollas?

and what kind of mods on these cars yield 190whp, are we talking something major or just simple bolt ons?

and why does the older a matrix xrs gets the more power it has? i think id rather have an 03-04 then any of the other models, the real late ones only had 165 hp, thats kind of weak especailly considering that they are kinda porky

[silver04rollas]

Originally Posted by joeyicu

well i want a 2zz powered car, and i think it will end up costing more to throw one in my 8th gen, then to buy one of the 3 cars powered by it

so bottom line, for someone concerned with power because i like all 3 cars pretty much equally, witch car would you take?

Celica GTS, if you can find a 2000 - 2001 for the good price and in very good condition (since they have cable throttle and 8400 rpm rev limit) and can live with 2 door coupe.

Corolla XRS, if you want more pacticality with 4 doors and still similar performance.

Matrix XRS, if you would like to have the space of a hatch with lots of practicality at the cost of a bit performance due to the 200 something pounds weight difference with Corolla XRS.

witch cars have the lower rev limiter silver04rollas?

Like my post above says, 2002 and 2005 Celica GTS.

and what kind of mods on these cars yield 190whp, are we talking something major or just simple bolt ons?

Cold air intake
PPE Race header
Full cat-back exhaust system
Hydra or Apexi PFC engine management system tune

and why does the older a matrix xrs gets the more power it has? i think id rather have an 03-04 then any of the other models, the real late ones only had 165 hp, thats kind of weak especailly considering that they are kinda porky

Simple answer is marketing. Other than that, from 2005 to 2006, the rating only dropped due to changes in the SAE rating systems. All three strapped to a dyno showed they all dyno within 3 - 5 wheel HP of each other. No difference. However, the main difference was in how the torque curve looked like and where lift engages. Toyota was not truthful about the 127 ft-lbs@ 4400 rpm peak torque when the peak torque still shows up in dynos at 6800 rpm in all 2ZZs of 133 ft-lbs. It was just so that it seems more city driving friendly with peak torque coming in at low rpms. 2005+ had the flattest torque curve below 5000 rpm, but lift engages at 6600 rpm.

Dynos never lie and all of them consistently dyno between 151 - 155 wheel HP stock, which yields only a 9% drivetrain loss if the 165 HP is to be believed. 1ZZ for example, dynos at 105 wheel HP when it is rated at 126 HP while 2ZZ yields more to the wheels than the rating difference suggests. On the average, front wheel drive cars yield a 12 - 15% drivetrain loss, which points only to the fact that 2ZZ became underrated as the years progressed. The peak HP was still around 175 - 180 HP giving an accurate 12% drivetrain loss.

[84Hachi]

Well I had an opportunity to drive the 09 xrs last Feb. If I had the money I would have bought it. Then a few months later drove the matrix xrs. I would still get the rolla but the matrix is a little more stiffer on corners.