So this may be a dumb question, but do Toyota dealerships fix TSB's for free even if your car is out of Warranty? this is the 1st new car I've had that's out of warranty. any insight.
Unless of course you have a really nice dealership, or they have the parts laying around.
__________________ Richard aka Rich
2011 Toyota Corolla S Nautical Blue- 20% tint, Borla Pro XS muffler and tip, Nokya artic white headlights and fogs Gunmetal 16 spoke wheels
It really depends on what the TSB is for. TSB is an acronym for Technical Service Bulletin. These are designed to instruct mechanics on how to perform various service procedures for common issues on common vehicles. Some will be performed for free (example: some safety related issues) and others you will be charged for if your car is no longer under the manufacturer's warranty.
Safety issues would not be a TSB, they would be a campaign. Safety campaigns (recalls) do not expire, and are done on every vehicle, even if the vehicle is written off.
There are also customer satisfaction campaigns, which will usually have an expiry, but are offered to all customers, regardless of whether or not they are having the problem. (These typically do not have mileage/vehicle age limits, just an expiry date for the campaign).
TSB's are information bulletins to fix specific issues/problems someone is having with a car. Either by replacing a part with an updated version, or doing some sort service. They always fall under a specific warranty (comprehensive, powertrain, etc.) so the coverage will be for that warranty. Unless there is a specific situation where a Warranty Bulletin is issued extending warranty on a specific component, in which case it may be covered for a longer period of time. The issue would be covered by warranty even without a TSB (usually), but the TSB offers a specific repair procedure for a specific issue.
Safety issues would not be a TSB, they would be a campaign. Jeff
There most certainly are TSBs for safety related issues. For example, there is a TSB describing the procedure to eliminate the potential unintended acceleration issue.
A slight surging between a 4mph range is an annoyance, not a safety issue.
Jeff
Jeff,
If you understood the history of the investigation into the unintended acceleration issue, you would realize the TSB listed above was the first document analyzed because it focused on the ECU being at fault in not controlling the engine speed properly.
If you still believe that TSBs are never issued for safety related items, perhaps you may want to read this:
Toyota issues TSB for Camry and Avalon models affected by unintended acceleration recall
Just as the dust begins to settle from Toyota’s recall issues, the automaker has issued a Technical Service Bulletin for Camry and Avalon models affected by the unintended acceleration recall.
The TSB has been issued because two weld nuts may be damaged when a technician removes bolts used to attach the accelerator pedal to the bulkhead as part of the unintended acceleration recall.
However, Toyota says this is unlikely to happen, and that no vehicles on the road are affected. Not all vehicles have yet been fixed though, so the situation could occur in the future, prompting the TSB.
Contrary to Toyota’s press release, Consumer Reports claims that over 500 complaints have reported accelerators that feel loose or have play side-to-side. We can only speculate which one is true, but Toyota has been known to hide things about these recalls in an attempt to make themselves look better. Press Release
Toyota also responded to the safety issue caused when the floormats were suspected of making the gas pedal stick, using a TSB to instruct dealers how to remedy that potential safety issue:
Report: Toyota warned dealers with floormat TSB back in 2007
Toyota announced an all out recall of both floor mats and accelerator pedals beginning in late 2009, but the issue was clearly known by the company years prior. Recent reports indicated that the automaker was well aware of floor mat-related issues dating back to early 2007. Not only was the company aware of the issue, it responded by posting a technical service bulletin (TSB).
Back in March of 2007, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) opened an investigation into pedal entrapment on the LexusES350. Within two weeks, Toyota issued a TSB to dealers regarding possible pedal entrapment caused by floor mats. Later that year, Toyota warned dealers of the same possible risk on all Toyota models and instructed dealerships not to install optional floor mats. A portion of the TSB is posted below:
NEVER install more than one floormat at a time in the driver's seating position... If applicable, any secondary set of floormats MUST be placed in the trunk with all the packaging material intact. DO NOT install the secondary mat on top of the primary floormat already in the driver's seating position.
In September of 2007, Toyota voluntarily recalled 55,000 floormats from Lexus and Toyota vehicles, but stated that no known problem had been found with the mats or vehicles. NHTSA closed the investigation, but the problems didn't end. Toyota continued to send TSBs for 2008 and 2009 model year vehicles to remind dealers of potential pedal entrapment problems.
The TSBs are clear proof that Toyota was aware of the potential problem and it shows they acted in a way consistent with other automakers by addressing the problem at the dealership level. The mistakes the company made include admitting that the floor mats were not part of the problem and then doing nothing else to discover and fix the real problem.
Jeff,
If you understood the history of the investigation into the unintended acceleration issue, you would realize the TSB listed above was the first document analyzed because it focused on the ECU being at fault in not controlling the engine speed properly.
True, the TSB information was looked at, as it provided a window into how the ECU handles throttle inputs, but that was long after the TSB was released, and the TSB was still not released by Toyota at the time to address a safety issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blb
If you still believe that TSBs are never issued for safety related items, perhaps you may want to read this:
Toyota issues TSB for Camry and Avalon models affected by unintended acceleration recall
http://theblogofcars.com/wp-content/...amry_LE_07.jpg
Just as the dust begins to settle from Toyota’s recall issues, the automaker has issued a Technical Service Bulletin for Camry and Avalon models affected by the unintended acceleration recall.
The TSB has been issued because two weld nuts may be damaged when a technician removes bolts used to attach the accelerator pedal to the bulkhead as part of the unintended acceleration recall.
However, Toyota says this is unlikely to happen, and that no vehicles on the road are affected. Not all vehicles have yet been fixed though, so the situation could occur in the future, prompting the TSB.
Contrary to Toyota’s press release, Consumer Reports claims that over 500 complaints have reported accelerators that feel loose or have play side-to-side. We can only speculate which one is true, but Toyota has been known to hide things about these recalls in an attempt to make themselves look better. Press Release
Again, the TSB was released to give technicians additional technical information on performing the recall/safety campaign. While you are correct in that the issue at hand could be a safety issue, it is really more of a supplement to the actual safety campaign, not a standalone issue. The TSB does not relate specifically to a part under warranty, but rather to the recall procedure itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blb
Toyota also responded to the safety issue caused when the floormats were suspected of making the gas pedal stick, using a TSB to instruct dealers how to remedy that potential safety issue:
Report: Toyota warned dealers with floormat TSB back in 2007
Toyota announced an all out recall of both floor mats and accelerator pedals beginning in late 2009, but the issue was clearly known by the company years prior. Recent reports indicated that the automaker was well aware of floor mat-related issues dating back to early 2007. Not only was the company aware of the issue, it responded by posting a technical service bulletin (TSB).
Back in March of 2007, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) opened an investigation into pedal entrapment on the LexusES350. Within two weeks, Toyota issued a TSB to dealers regarding possible pedal entrapment caused by floor mats. Later that year, Toyota warned dealers of the same possible risk on all Toyota models and instructed dealerships not to install optional floor mats. A portion of the TSB is posted below:
NEVER install more than one floormat at a time in the driver's seating position... If applicable, any secondary set of floormats MUST be placed in the trunk with all the packaging material intact. DO NOT install the secondary mat on top of the primary floormat already in the driver's seating position.
In September of 2007, Toyota voluntarily recalled 55,000 floormats from Lexus and Toyota vehicles, but stated that no known problem had been found with the mats or vehicles. NHTSA closed the investigation, but the problems didn't end. Toyota continued to send TSBs for 2008 and 2009 model year vehicles to remind dealers of potential pedal entrapment problems.
The TSBs are clear proof that Toyota was aware of the potential problem and it shows they acted in a way consistent with other automakers by addressing the problem at the dealership level. The mistakes the company made include admitting that the floor mats were not part of the problem and then doing nothing else to discover and fix the real problem.
While this is somewhat safety related, it actually somewhat falls outside of the scope of what we're talking about in this thread. This thread is about getting a TSB done outside of warranty. The spoken-of TSB in this article was a method of giving information to dealers to make sure things like floor mats are not installed incorrectly, and what NOT to do, etc. As opposed to actually fixing a problem with the car, it was about not creating a problem by installing incorrect floor mats.
I suppose you are not totally wrong in saying that some TSB's can be safety related. That being said, I believe at this point we are arguing semantics. What constitutes a safety issue? To what extent does that relate to "getting a TSB performed under warranty," etc. In general, TSB's are not issued for safety concerns though, a recall/safety campaign will be used instead.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. Both TSB's and Campaigns often have expiry information, most TSB's will be at the end of the warranty for a specific item, while most campaigns will either not have an expiry (safety related) or will be a specific date, not related to the age or mileage of the vehicle. One final note about the major difference between TSB's and Campaigns: Customer notification; for TSB's customers are not notified, for Campaigns customers are notified.
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