4 wheel alignments in 56,000 k...tire eater!

[COYOTE1]

Hello everyone, I am new to the site and it looks like a good one.
We are on our second Toyota, the first was a 2005 Matrix XR with 17" wheels that was an awesome car! We now own a 2009 Matrix XRS 2wd with 18" wheels that seems to want to destroy tires.

I will the first to admit that I haven't rotated the tires as often as some people but our first Matrix had 100,000 k with origanal tires when we traded it off. The tires were still at 5/32 tread depth...I did run winter rims and tires for a couple of winters.

At 15,000 k on the 09 Matrix I noticed a strange wooo wooo sound at slower speeds and found the front tires were cupping. I rotated the tires but before I could get the car to the dealer the front tires were already cupping again.
When I complained the smart a$$ service writer said that tires are not on warranty, I agreed but told him the tires weren't at fault but the car was.
I asked if the wheel alignment is checked on PDI and he said it wasn't.

The wheel alignment was checked and was found to be out. I ran these tires to 25,000 k until we couldn't stand the tire noise. We were lucky enough to convince Toyota to supply 2 tires and we bought the other 2 thanks to an excellent service manager at the dealership.

4 new tires were installed, the wheel alignment checked again and again it was out.

1 1/2 years ago I hammered a deer and did $11,000 damage to the car...another wheel alignment.....the tires showed no strange wear at this time.

Before this winter I rotated the tires again...they looked fine.

The other day I was taking the car to the dealer to get the command start working before the car runs off warranty when I noticed the sick woo woo sound again. The dealer did another wheel alignment and found it was out again and the front tires are cupped...this time I was charged for the alignment.

Please note: I almost never drive this car, my wife commutes with it, all highway driving on pretty smooth roads.

Please help, is there something that dealership could be missing?
My wife loves her Toyota but at close to a $1000 for a set of tires this thing is getting expensive to own!

Thanks in advance.

[fishexpo101]

Have a similar experience, though more with tire wear than with tire cupping - though they could be related. What I'm concerned about if the rear getting out of alignment so often. They dropped the rear beam in the previous generation to go with a independent rear suspension on the XRS trim. Could be one of the lateral links is bent or mount is damaged, causing it to go out of alignment often.

Also could be a side effect of the 18" wheels have a pretty low profile tire on the 2009 Matrix (45-series). I also drive a 2009 Matrix XRS with the 18" wheels, my previous car was the 2003 Matrix XRS with both 16" (55-series) and 17" (50-series) tires.

Doesn't sound like a lot of difference between the 50-series to the 45-series, but those slightly meatier tires on the other Matrix can handle a lot of road imperfections without moving the alignment off much. With a 45-series tires, doesn't take much to throw it out. Even running over a big speed bump briskly can throw off the alignment. Used to run a 45-series tire on my 8th gen (16" wheel) - but after three bent wheels on two sets of alloys (two pressure cast, one was forged) on my usually commute - switched to a meaty 60-series on a 14" wheel and so far, 6 years later and zero problems.

Assuming this is also on the OEM BFGoodrich tires? The current set we have are sitting at 22K miles, rotated them religiously, check the alignment monthly and I'll be lucky if they make it another 5K-8K miles. From what I've gathered, that is alot of miles for this tire - other owners were lucky to get even 10K-15K miles (16k-24k km) before they hit the wear bars. Have them inflated to 44PSI, since we drive almost exclusively highway and to help even out the wear (at OEM tire inflation will wear out the tires very quickly).

My plan to "fix" this is to run different tires - probably a Continental in the OEM size (215/45-18) or PLUS 0 the tire (Tirerack's concept) in a 235/40-18. Will actually trade down to a thinner sidewall, but offset it with a wider tread - hopefully that will offer a contact patch that will still be long enough to ride over road imperfections.

[COYOTE1]

Wow, I had no idea the BFGs were such poor tires! I think we all suck in to the cool rims but when we have to start buying tires the tune changes...has for me. This car gets treated like a baby and shouldn't have suspension issues.

My other vehicles get driven on back roads and get bounced across fields and have no tire issues. Only one wheel alignment after I hit a drainage ditch.

Thanks for the response fishexpo, it's good to know I am not alone with this tire problem. I am afraid I am loosing faith in this car.

[silver04rollas]

I have bad past experience with BFG tires. I would recommend a different brand.

[COYOTE1]

Originally Posted by silver04rollas

I have bad past experience with BFG tires. I would recommend a different brand.

I think you are right, thanks.

[COYOTE1]

Well I fixed my tire problem.....traded the car of on a Chev Equinox. After our first Toyota I didn't think I would go away from them but I am not going to burn money on tires and wheel alignments all the time.
Thanks for the responses about my problem.

[fishexpo101]

Well that is one way to fix the tire issue!

Anyways, good luck with the Chevy Equinox. Hoping that you got a newer one and not the pre-2005 models, as they have some unique "features" that are sometimes tough to diagnose and other maddening issues. Don't want to see anyone jumping from the frying pan into the fire - so to speak.

[TrailDust]

Originally Posted by COYOTE1

At 15,000 k on the 09 Matrix I noticed a strange wooo wooo sound at slower speeds and found the front tires were cupping. I rotated the tires but before I could get the car to the dealer the front tires were already cupping again.

This indicates to me that your tires had not been rotated in 15,000 kilometers, is that correct?