Ethanol is a carbon based fuel too. It is hardly environmentally friendly. The only truly environmentally friendly automotive technologies that exist are hydrogen/electrically powered cars, with nuclear fission plants to power the generation of hydrogen/electricity, breeder reactors to recycle the unused uranium and space vehicles with Mach-Lorentz thrusters to haul the nuclear waste to the Sun or some asteriod somewhere. The hydrogen technologies are still in development by Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, etcetera and are not only years but decades away, especially once you consider economics and the need for hydrogen delivery infrastructure. Tesla Motors, already has an electrical sports car avaliable and has sedans as well as other cars in development but the super capacitors that will make them driveable for long distances (e.g. vacations) are still five years away from market. Nuclear Fission power plants only supply 20% of the electricity in the country and breeder reactors have been banned. Mach-Lorentz thrusters have just been discovered as being possible and it will not be until either NASA or the Air Force begins development of aircraft capable of flying with them that using them to send nuclear waste to the Sun or some asteriod somewhere will become possible.
Ethanol is being championed by people as being "green" but it still leads to the unnatural generation of carbon dioxide. If we are going to start talking about being green beyond using three way catalyic converters to ensure that automobiles output only N2, H2O and C2O, then we should go all the way and we should not insist on wasting resources towards a partial solution. Until we do that, every automobile will not be "environmentally friendly" under at least one definition, but unlike the radical extremists, I do not believe in switching to more environmentally friendly technologies prematurely (i.e. before they are both ready and economically feasible). The radical extremists have predicted doom and gloom if we do not follow their every whim, but I for one know that their prediction is untrue. The world will not end from us putting CO2, N2, H2O and even a little SO2 into the atmosphere, but if we think it will end, we will switch prematurely and the world will enter a period worse than the Great Depression, which is not acceptable.
Anyway, when I start working after I am done with my studies, I will probably have that engine and transmission swap done, which hopefully should be before they would have died naturally anyway. I would really like to make the fuel economy higher and a new engine and transmission, plus the labor associated with installing it is cheaper than buying a brand new car. In Cuba, they are still using American made cars from the 1960s, because they take very good care of them, so I figure that if I take very good care of my Avalon, I will be able to use it for long as I can get gasoline. Even if I buy a new electric car from Tesla Motors, I am not going to get rid of my Avalon; I simply like it too much. I am just curious as to how much the parrts would cost now.
Last edited by ShiningArcanine; 08-29-2006 at 08:57 AM.
It will be much cheaper to keep the existing drivetrain, the gains will be minimal. It is not a trivial matter to mate engines and drivetrains from different manufacturers. Mating engines and trannys into body shells that are not designed for them is only done out of shear desperation, as in your Cuban example. The 50's rear wheel drive cars are a cinch compared to a FWD car that will need to meet emission specs as well. What are proposing is far from practical and economical, like way out there. Find a used Prius instead.
Anyway, when I start working after I am done with my studies, I will probably have that engine and transmission swap done, which hopefully should be before they would have died naturally anyway. I would really like to make the fuel economy higher and a new engine and transmission, plus the labor associated with installing it is cheaper than buying a brand new car.
If you find a mechanic willing to take this on I will be a monkey's uncle!
To do this you are going to have to become the ultra car hobbyist and do it yourself, and its going to take months to do. Maybe you can ride a bike while doing the work?
Seriously, I have followed a couple of people just going from a single overhead cam V6 to a double overhead cam V6 in the same year car, and the problems they had to work through and over come were huge. Not to mention that this tranny and engine will have to have separate ECUs wired in, different from the ECU you will be removing.
I am not saying it can't be done, it can, but it would take a lot of patience, persistence, and the right person to get it done. You just can't open the phone book and find someone to do this!
Also, I imagine it will be very cost prohibitive—but would not even know how to go about estimating the cost.
Good luck to you though. Your idealism and imagination are refreshing.
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1997 Avalon XLS (black, black leather, tinted windows), sold June 2009 with 183K on it, still looking and running great!
I am planning to keep the Avalon so replacing it with a Prius is out of the question. If going from the 1MZ-FE engine and 4 speed automatic transmission to a Toyota 4GR-FSE and an Audi Multitronic transmission is not practical because of the Audi transmission, would a Toyota continuously variable transmission work? I believe Toyota makes them as they are used in the 2007 Camry and some Lexus cars.
Edit: Scratch that idea. I just found out exactly what type of "continuously variable transmission" Toyota makes. MSN Autos said that the 2007 Camry had a CVT transmission but it actually uses an eliptical gear configuration with two electrical motors to get the same effect as a CVT transmission, and looking at Toyota's description of it, its components are located in more places than a conventional transmission's components would be, so I would rather not try to retrofit it. If I do the engine and transmission swap in the future, I might just end up getting a Toyota 6 speed automatic transmission instead. That is unless Honda's CVT is more compatible with my Avalon than Audi's CVT, as judging by your responses, putting Audi's CVT transmission into an Avalon is next to impossible. Would anyone know if Honda's CVT would be a better match?
Last edited by ShiningArcanine; 08-29-2006 at 06:45 PM.
It might not be practical, but while some people enjoy modifying their cars for more horsepower, I enjoy modifying my car for more fuel economy. As I said, I am an environmentalist; I find it rewarding to make my car consume fewer resources.
Anyway, if in the future (i.e. 2015) I decide to do this, do you think that the dealership would do the work?
this would be out of the scope of knowledge and skill of a dealership....and the last honda 4 cyl and v6 i looked at sit the opposite direction than the toyota....meaning in a toyota the timing belt side of the engine is on the passenger side....the honda it's on the driver side... meaning the tranny and transaxle are in totally different places ..... they would never fit with the toyota motor.... what you would have to do is transplant the entire engine and transaxle from honda or audi or whatever into your car. it's easy to sit and dream that this engine...mated with this tranny...mated with this drivetrain would make the most effeciant car.....but then there's the real world. if it could be done...people would be doing it.... in the good ole days of v8 engines and rear wheel drive, it was easy to mix n match parts....not anymore.... everything is enginered single purpose...made to be controled by car's computers.... and speaking of computers...that's where you could possibly really get better efficiency....learn all about the car ecu....the programming language etc. you may have to sacrafice some performance...but with ecu reprograming in fuel mixtures...shift points...temperatures etc. you may get more gains than by a cvt transplant
I guess it would make much more sense to go with Toyota's 6 speed automatic transmission instead of a CVT. Would parts exclusively from Toyota be more compatible or are there still too many differences between them?
By the way, I know a little programming. Exactly how do I reprogram the car's computer and is the software that operates it open source?
Last edited by ShiningArcanine; 08-30-2006 at 07:58 AM.
manual tranny's get better gas mileage and require less fluid exchanges, therefore being better for the environment, look to a manual to mate to your new dream engine.
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1997 Avalon XLS (black, black leather, tinted windows), sold June 2009 with 183K on it, still looking and running great!
It seems that the transmission fluid in my Avalon has only changed once every 8 years, so requiring fewer fluid changes is non-factor due to all of the transmission fluid changes that have not been done.
Anyway, a manual transmission would require a new stick shift, and I am quite fond of the old one, so a manual transmission is not an option. I just found out that Toyota has an eight speed automatic transmission that it is using in the 2007 Lexus LS. It is probably more fuel efficient than any six speed transmission so I am wondering, would it be compatible?
Last edited by ShiningArcanine; 08-30-2006 at 01:58 PM.
LOL....let's not assume.....i said call the dealer because there prob isnt anyone in this forum, or even in this country...and maybe not even in the world who would know if that tranny that just came out would be compatable..... the dealer will tell you NO. it's not only that the parts are different, different sizes, different castings, different casings, and that they don't mate....it is still also because it wouldnt be compatible with the computer. it is beyond anyone's expertise.
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