95 Avalon engine died driving down the freeway

[davidb4775]

We are original owners of a 95 Avalon XLS with 81000 miles that has been handed down to 17 year old daughter to drive to school. Today she called to say the car died. According to her, she was driving down the freeway about 65 mph when there was a 2-3 second RPM surge to around 6000 RPMs. The engine then died and she coasted to the shoulder of the road. When we got out there, I attempted to start the car. A click could be heard when the key was turned, but nothing else. The engine did not even attempt to turn over.

We got it to the mechanic and he is going to dive into it Friday. We took a quick look under the hood. Oil, transmission, radiator fluids were fine. Battery system is fine. Mechanic pulled on the belt by hand and it looks like the engine is “seized” – not positive if that was the term he used.

We have lived through all the common Avalon ailments – power steering pump, alternator, and CV boots. Mechanics best guess is that it is probably the torque converter. I’ll grant him some leeway with his “parking lot educated guess”.

Can someone advise the symptoms & results if it is a torque converter that went out? Is this common? Would a broken timing belt result in the same scenario? (Its original) Any thoughts/ideas would be appreciated.

[fourwheeler]

It's probably not a broken timing belt. These engines are non-interfaced and won't screw up the valves if a belt breaks. If it was a broken timing belt, the engine should turn over but won't start (like its out of gas). Voice of experience here.

I question how your mechanic could say it was a torque converter by turning over the engine but I'm not there and able to look at the car. Best of luck, hope it's something simple.

[HATEnFATE]

If your mechanic can tell the engine is siezed by pulling on a belt, he's awesome!

Have you ever had the engine checked over for sludge? I know it's not as common on the V6's but it does happen. I'm trying to figure out the surge in RPM's before the crash.

Let us know what your mechanic says and If it sounds fishy, it probably is.

[davidb4775]

The car did have the infamous sludge issue in the past. When the low oil pressure light would come on, we had the system flushed and pan screen cleaned. Every five or six months, we would have to repeat this process when sludge built up resulting in low pressure. This was several years ago and, over time, the frequency of this happening was less and less. I was aware of the sludge issue with Toyota but it was my understanding that my 95 model was not included.

As an update, the mechanic pulled the oil pan and stated he found "pieces" of metal in the pan. He named off some things that he thought the pieces were from, but the bottom line, is that he said I need a new engine. He admitted that he is perplexed what would cause such a catastrophic failure.

He is going to start shopping for an replacement engine so he can work up a quote for replacing it. While I realize that many would cringe at the thought of sinking….say $3000?..... into replacing the engine versus spending that money on another used car, I am extremely fearful about what problems we might inherit with buying another used car. What problems would we find that would be uncovered only with driving it for several months? Then add those repairs to the "effective" cost of a replacement car. We are the original owners and have a good feeling about resurrecting it but are fully aware that there is a dollar tipping point that would make it outrageous. We just don't know what that dollar amount is.

It is what our daughter will driving when she goes off to college in fall 2010. The safety, size and, frankly, low relative value makes it a perfect car (in my mind) to be driven to school and left in the parking lot for days on end.

Sage advice would be appreciated.

[BMR]

Used engines can be had for $600-$800. Do a google search on "JDM engines" (without the quotes) and you'll find a lot of places that sell used engines imported from Japan.

Of course your mechanic will charge for installing one, but I would guess you could get it done for under $2000.

[davidb4775]

Thanks. I'll take a look

[84Cressida]

Could the oil pump not have been supplying oil to the engine? Awfully strange that would happen. Best of luck getting it fixed. Keep us updated.

[davidb4775]

Mechanic called today. A full block is going to run $970 (including shipping). After it comes in, he is going to replace all the seals, gaskets, water pump, timing chain/belt and any other parts that are typical issues. Six month warranty. Out the door price, about $3100

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted by davidb4775

We are original owners of a 95 Avalon XLS with 81000 miles that has been handed down to 17 year old daughter to drive to school. Today she called to say the car died. According to her, she was driving down the freeway about 65 mph when there was a 2-3 second RPM surge to around 6000 RPMs. The engine then died and she coasted to the shoulder of the road. When we got out there, I attempted to start the car. A click could be heard when the key was turned, but nothing else. The engine did not even attempt to turn over.

We got it to the mechanic and he is going to dive into it Friday. We took a quick look under the hood. Oil, transmission, radiator fluids were fine. Battery system is fine. Mechanic pulled on the belt by hand and it looks like the engine is “seized” – not positive if that was the term he used.

We have lived through all the common Avalon ailments – power steering pump, alternator, and CV boots. Mechanics best guess is that it is probably the torque converter. I’ll grant him some leeway with his “parking lot educated guess”.

Can someone advise the symptoms & results if it is a torque converter that went out? Is this common? Would a broken timing belt result in the same scenario? (Its original) Any thoughts/ideas would be appreciated.

I am a 20 year old college student. My parents are the original owners of a 1995 Toyota Avalon XLS, which now I drive. It has 132,843 miles on it (as of earlier today) and it still works fine. In this post and a succeeding post, you mentioned having various issues and I thought I would chime in to say that I had some of these issues too.

I had Mobil 1 put into the engine at around 72,000 miles and it developed an oil leak, which required that gaskets be replaced and the engine be resealed. Later on, at around 107,000 miles, the car's response to my turning the steering wheel felt off. We took it to the dealer who replaced a Power Steering Gear and did some sort of repair to the rear sway bar. After that, at 114,000 miles, it developed a grinding noise on turns, which according to the dealer was because of loose control arm bolts, which they tightened.

Those are the only major issues that the car has had. Aside from that, it has had issues with the antenna's motor breaking (twice) because of inclement weather conditions, the driver side sun visor breaking, water collecting inside the driver side rear door (apparently, a drain in the door became clogged), the windshield wiper motor breaking, a door handle breaking (according to my maintenance log, I don't remember this issue very well) and the front driver and passenger side windows ceasing to open. Most of these issues have been fixed at the dealer with part of the cost covered by Geico's mechanical break down insurance (minus a $250 deductible). Currently, the passenger side window needs to be fixed.

Anyway, my advice to you (if you are still reading this thread) is to have the car repaired. It is an excellent car and as long as it is properly maintained, I doubt it will have this issue occur again. Speaking of which, when was the last time the oil was changed and how many miles were on the oil? What oil and filter did you use?

[davidb4775]

Glad to hear some encouragement to get it fixed. Hopefully today, the replacement engine was loaded on a truck and, with some fingers crossed, it will be ready by end of next week. The brand of oil and filter varied. Though I don't have any single brand loyalty, I prefer going with major brands.

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted by davidb4775

Glad to hear some encouragement to get it fixed. Hopefully today, the replacement engine was loaded on a truck and, with some fingers crossed, it will be ready by end of next week. The brand of oil and filter varied. Though I don't have any single brand loyalty, I prefer going with major brands.

I have used nothing but Castro GTX with a Purolator PureONE oil filter in my Avalon for the past 40,000 miles according to my maintenance log. I posted a thread a bit earlier today inquiring if I could use a longer filter than the one I normally use. If it turns out the longer filter fits, it will be the first time in about 3 years that I have used something other than the PL10241 Purolator filter in my car.

I usually look for sales on oil and filters and then buy them in bulk, so I have them for when the oil needs to be changed. If you do this, you can stick to a particular brand without paying a premium. Off the top of my head, I have two dozen quarts of Castro GTX on hand and at least 7 filters at the moment. At my peak, I had roughly 60 quarts of oil. Each quart of oil cost 99 cents (before taxes) and I believe I paid 4 to 6 dollars per oil filter.

I like Castro GTX because it is the best Group II oil and my uncle who does oil changes for me does not like synthetic oils. I also like the Purolator PureONE filters because the filtering element used in them tends to have more surface area than other filters, which in theory (and according to Purolator), allows for better filtration.

By the way, I was using a K&N air filter until recently, when I changed to a Purolator paper air filter. I did this because I read over at bobistheoilguy.com that better air filtration is more important for having clean oil than a better oil filter. The K&N air filters give a horsepower boost over the paper air filters because they are not as efficient at filtration as the paper filters, so I decided to switch to to the paper filter. Also, speaking of the K&N filter, shortly after installing it, the O2 sensor on the car went bad and had to be replaced, so I was a bit worried that another K&N Filter (or the same filter after having been cleaned with their special oil) would affect the O2 sensor again, which is another reason why I went with the paper filter.

Anyway, I recommend using a Purolator PureONE oil filter with either Castro GTX or a Group III or better oil. A Group III or better oil is likely marketed as being synthetic and will cost a premium over the Castro GTX. I also recommend using a paper air filter over a K&N Filter. I expect that doing this minimizes the possibility of oil related engine problems. Just make sure you change the oil approximately every 5,000 miles unless you have a used oil analysis done by a lab to tell you how long the oil can go without being changed.

[davidb4775]

Thank for your oil/filter input. I think that a 5000 mile interval for simple (not long distance) driving is good as it is easy to coordinate the changes with the odometer reading.

[chuckoff]

Your engine seized because the oil pump pick-up sludged over and the engine lost oil pressure and spun a bearing and you want to cheap out and change the oil every 5000 miles? Change it every 3000 unless you use synthetic in which case, 5000 mile intervals are fine. Short trips are way harder on your car than highway driving. Oh yeah, you might to tell your daughter to watch out for oil lights, and turn down the radio so she can hear engine trouble.