So I bought a '96 Avalon XLS for 1500$...

[thesubmitter]

Hi,

I bought this car with a very good interior, virtually rust free exterior. I took it for a test drive it drove very well and I decided to forgo my cautious procedures (I NEVER do that but - hey it was only 1500$!!) and just buy it. I figured I could use it for the 2 minute drive to the train station on our cold winter days if it happened to be so bad.

I had the car for a few days in my garage and driveway, I drove it a few times on the block and on the about 60km of highway and the major things I noticed were:
-the rear shock (the seller disclosed that to me) clunked a bit
-there was a smell of gas you noticed from inside and outside of the car if stayed in one place too long
-it didn't leak any fluids even though I left in my garage for a couple of days.
-Upon opening the oil cap, it looked very sludgey there so I told myself that the Auto-RX treatment would be a good idea (if the car was worth it). Interstingly enough the car was built 5/96 which is before the 7/96 date I've seen that marks the starting point of the sludge problems.
-The lights on the climate control were unreliable they went off when I turned on the rear defroster.
-The interior, exterior and driving, startup etc... were all fine
-ABS, Cruise Ctrl, Windows etc... all worked fine

Anyways, I decided to get the car checked out at a Toyota Dealership to see the status of it. Toyota told me the car had too many problems that it prob wasn't worth fixing.

This is a list of the problems Toyota quoted me:
-rack+pinion = 807$ ( I think he mentionned PS fluid leaking)
-Front Left Axle Seal Leaking (170$)
-Timing Belt/Water Pumpt 640$
-Rear Shocks and Supports 1330$
-Filler Neck Leaking 385$
-Valve Cover Gasket and Oil Seals for timing Belt Leaking 300$ + TX
-Tranny Oil 60$
-Complete Exhaust (no price)
-Oil Pan Leaking 480$
-Timing Chain Cover Leaking (no price)

My dad (I'm married with kids but that Dad has got a say )drove the car and he was pretty impressed (for 1500$) about how well it drove etc.... He is insisting that Toyota is exaggerating, inflating and not taking the "shortcuts" so to speak that should taken on a 1500$ car. He is insisting I take it to a small-time mechanic to get a better idea.

I'm thinking of going to the dealership and understanding how "badly" do these parts need to be replaced, what are the consequences of not replacing them, how likely are they to fail etc...

Then I'll prob take this car to another mechanic and get those items fixed so the car runs safely

Finally, I'm 100% willing to DIY and I'm fairly technical but It'd definitely be my first time delving into cars.

Alternatively, (or even in parallel) I would sue the seller for selling a car with Latent Defects (apparently it works in Quebec). Or I just sell the car for parts/crap.

Any Ideas, advice and/or suggestions would be appreciated! I would have loved that this car been a reliable family car as the drive is still great despite these issues.


Thanks!

[Jack Deth]

i wouldn't take a car older than 10 yrs to a dealership for anything. that's why they call them "stealerships"

[CupCate18]

Originally Posted by thesubmitter

This is a list of the problems Toyota quoted me:
-rack+pinion = 807$ ( I think he mentionned PS fluid leaking) I wouldn't say this is a must have, if not fixed, you just won't have power steering. Not a big deal, gives you some muscles.
-Front Left Axle Seal Leaking (170$)
-Timing Belt/Water Pump 640$ as you stated, have it checked by other mech. This could cause major issues....
-Rear Shocks and Supports 1330$ more of a "comfort thing". if it bugs you, fix it.
-Filler Neck Leaking 385$
-Valve Cover Gasket and Oil Seals for timing Belt Leaking 300$ + TX VCG should be relatively easy to do. Dunno about other.
-Tranny Oil 60$ Sounds about right, it's relatively cheap and your car will shift MUCH better.
-Complete Exhaust (no price)
-Oil Pan Leaking 480$
-Timing Chain Cover Leaking (no price)

Other items I'm not too sure about. Keep oil on ya and check it often. For $1500 and a running car, that's better than what most get for that price.

They do tend to over exaggerate a lot of their stuff, but if you were to sell it to a used car dealer, they'd swear they knew you, and how well you took care of the car. It's all about who can screw who over. Fix whats necessary and enjoy it the most you can.

[Jack Deth]

i was inspired by cupcate's excellent post to add a couple of more comments...
axle seal - keep the ATF topped up and don't worry about it until the CV fails.
timing belt replacement is based on mileage alone, the water pump is usually done at the same time because it's convenient. if it's due, have it done. if you wait till it fails it's no big deal, the engine is non-interference, you'll just need a tow.
$1300 bucks for rear shocks seems outrageous.
leaky filler neck - i assume you mean gas, if just a leak and is not rusted out, seal it with gas tank sealant putty. this is causing your smell problem.
timing belt oil seals and leaking timing "chain" cover should be part of timing belt job.
complete exhaust - is it loud? do you smell exhaust in the car? wait till something happens, then bring it to a muffler shop.
leaking oil pan and valve cover gasket - keep oil topped up and don't worry about it.

[zythr]

I agree. The seals and the belt can be done at the same time. I guess this dealership wants to charge you twice for labor (timing belt and the seals) Unfortunately, some local mechanics aren't much better (all about the money) If you have not done so, ask around, do research (Angie's list type websites),etc to find a decent mechanic if you want to go that route. They're really good ones out there, but they're few and far between

[thesubmitter]

thanks for the advice - I'll update with what happens!

[tucson]

Originally Posted by thesubmitter

Hi,

I bought this car with a very good interior, virtually rust free exterior. I took it for a test drive it drove very well and I decided to forgo my cautious procedures (I NEVER do that but - hey it was only 1500$!!) and just buy it. I figured I could use it for the 2 minute drive to the train station on our cold winter days if it happened to be so bad.

I had the car for a few days in my garage and driveway, I drove it a few times on the block and on the about 60km of highway and the major things I noticed were:
-the rear shock (the seller disclosed that to me) clunked a bit
-there was a smell of gas you noticed from inside and outside of the car if stayed in one place too long
-it didn't leak any fluids even though I left in my garage for a couple of days.
-Upon opening the oil cap, it looked very sludgey there so I told myself that the Auto-RX treatment would be a good idea (if the car was worth it). Interstingly enough the car was built 5/96 which is before the 7/96 date I've seen that marks the starting point of the sludge problems.
-The lights on the climate control were unreliable they went off when I turned on the rear defroster.
-The interior, exterior and driving, startup etc... were all fine
-ABS, Cruise Ctrl, Windows etc... all worked fine

Anyways, I decided to get the car checked out at a Toyota Dealership to see the status of it. Toyota told me the car had too many problems that it prob wasn't worth fixing.

This is a list of the problems Toyota quoted me:
-rack+pinion = 807$ ( I think he mentionned PS fluid leaking)
-Front Left Axle Seal Leaking (170$)
-Timing Belt/Water Pumpt 640$
-Rear Shocks and Supports 1330$
-Filler Neck Leaking 385$
-Valve Cover Gasket and Oil Seals for timing Belt Leaking 300$ + TX
-Tranny Oil 60$
-Complete Exhaust (no price)
-Oil Pan Leaking 480$
-Timing Chain Cover Leaking (no price)

My dad (I'm married with kids but that Dad has got a say )drove the car and he was pretty impressed (for 1500$) about how well it drove etc.... He is insisting that Toyota is exaggerating, inflating and not taking the "shortcuts" so to speak that should taken on a 1500$ car. He is insisting I take it to a small-time mechanic to get a better idea.

I'm thinking of going to the dealership and understanding how "badly" do these parts need to be replaced, what are the consequences of not replacing them, how likely are they to fail etc...

Then I'll prob take this car to another mechanic and get those items fixed so the car runs safely

Finally, I'm 100% willing to DIY and I'm fairly technical but It'd definitely be my first time delving into cars.

Alternatively, (or even in parallel) I would sue the seller for selling a car with Latent Defects (apparently it works in Quebec). Or I just sell the car for parts/crap.

Any Ideas, advice and/or suggestions would be appreciated! I would have loved that this car been a reliable family car as the drive is still great despite these issues.


Thanks!

hi i cant believe that someone can be that low to do that to one another but honestly its not worth fixing it up and i wouldnt put my family in the car bcuz u never know what can happen. if you want i am selling a 1997 toyota avalon fully loaded and i can garenty you that there is nothing wrong with it. it runs like it just came of the lot and i swear. it has a sun roof, its in leather interior, everything and its roomy so i know that it would be a great car for your family. if ud want to know im selling it bcuz weve had it forever, (we were the first owners) and my mom just doesnt wanna give it up. my dad has offered her every single car in the world and she still didnt wanna lose it. my dad drives the newer cars but now i finaly convinced me mom to get a new car which she has and its a brand new lexus RX 350 but anyways i thought id let you know that this car is available and its a great car and i know that your family would love it. if ur interested u can chack out my ad on kijiji.com jsut type in 1997 toyota avalon and its the white one

thanks

[thesubmitter]

Hey,

Jsut an update for the curious.

I spoke to the mechanic at the dealership and tried to figure out what was REALLY bad and he told me:
-The rear shock was ruined and completely compressed.
Other than comfort (not that noticeable really) what is the worst case result of this?

-The Fuel filler pipe was rusted out and fumes weren't being taken where they should g.o

-In terms of the Rack and Pinion he said its leaking into the boot and we agreed that to just check the fluid levels and keep it topped up.

The car's exhaust is a little off. It doesn't spit out any exhaust fumes at all for the first 20 seconds after startup and then it puts out a steady white cloud, not an embarassing amount but clearly a cloud. I guess there is a cooling fluid leak - can I just leave it like that or willl something really bad happen eventually?

Also, I've noticed there is somethign with the interior lighting 1/2 the climate control buttons don't illuminate.

Thanks!

[zythr]

Probably have more tire wear. I don't know if you'll be able to carry anything heavy in the back, since the rear would be closer to the ground.

Rusted fuel pipe, that should probably be fixed, since CO is colorless and odorless

Rack and Pinion, I would get that fixed ASAP, little leaks can turn into big ones in a hurry. He probably is trying to save you an expensive repair, if the rack and pinion goes.

It depends if the leak is in the engine, then yes something bad can happen. The coolant will "wash" the oil off the interior parts of the engine.

The last is probably burned out bulbs.

I'm sensing this car was not very well maintained, which is sad.

[stope4]

Everything quoted related to the timing belt is one job and should cost no more than $600 - $800. This would include a water pump replacement. The rusted filler neck pipe needs to be fixed but you should buy the part and see if you can replace it. I'm betting this is a very simple fix that a novice can replace by simply seeing what the new part looks like and removing that part from the car. The rear shocks I would think could be replace again by a novice just by buying the Monroe replacement shock and spring as a unit. The parts cost a couple hundred bucks but not the stupid price quoted by the dealer. Make sure you buy the Monroe supports at the same time. These are as simple to replace as being able to remove a few bolts and placing the new support or shock mount in it's place. The valve cover gaskets and seals can be replace when you get around to it. These seals on my 96 leaked and cost a couple hundred to have them replaced. I did that at the same time as the timing belt, tune-up, water pump. All for around $900.

[NKippert]

If you are handy with a wrench, and could fix these items yourself, than $1500 for a roughed up '96 Toyota Avalon is a great price. Wish I could find one that cheap. One thing i have found is that even older Toyota's have great resale values.

[thesubmitter]

I think I will make a project out of the car, the main thing that is worrying me is the white smoke from the exhaust. Its pretty cold here right now and while I might be willing to check if its a blown gasket or something else - I don't want to do it now. I hope it won't cause a catastrophe in the next 100km or so!!

Seriously, the interior is impeccable and the exterior has some faded paint but unbelievably very little visible rust - very impressive for a 14yr old car....

I don't think I want to invest any time in the water belt/timing pump - I'd rather wait for them to break down - I don;t want to end up fixing them and having something else break. From what I understand, if those parts break down then your car will just stall but no permanent damage?

I'll probably deal with:
-white smoke as it might make the car not worth fixing (right?) so i should determine that first (I don't know why the stealership didn't do that)
-The fuel line filler (gas fumes = bad)
-exhaust - as much as is required to make sure there are no overly embarrassing sounds or dangerous leaks.

After that:
-Shocks
-Minor Oil leaks

Does that make sense? I was think to cap the investment in this car at 500$/yr for repairs!

Thanks!

[Jack Deth]

i would do the busted rear shock first. it will affect the handling, and if the exhaust is weak, each pothole will be like kicking the rusty pipe. shocks are best done in pairs, but replacing just the busted one will be a lot better than what you have now.
while you have the wheel off, check out the filler neck. if it can be patched, do it now. else, replace it now. this is a big safety concern if you have gas fumes in the passenger compartment.
look for your fluid leaks and make sure the cover bolts by the leaks are still torqued. this costs nothing.
if your atf is dirty, change it.
then wait and see what happens next. keep an eye on your fluids, esp the coolant. if you're burning it, the level will keep dropping.
if the timing belt fails, you will roll to a stop and need a tow. if the water pump fails, you will know about it in plenty of time to shut off the engine before it overheats.
thats my take on it FWIW.
cheers

[ImDisaster]

Originally Posted by thesubmitter

I think I will make a project out of the car, the main thing that is worrying me is the white smoke from the exhaust. Its pretty cold here right now and while I might be willing to check if its a blown gasket or something else - I don't want to do it now. I hope it won't cause a catastrophe in the next 100km or so!!

I'll probably deal with:
-white smoke as it might make the car not worth fixing (right?) so i should determine that first (I don't know why the stealership didn't do that)

The white smoke is the most worrisome. It indicates coolant getting into your engine. What is throwing me though, is that it doesn't happen right away. Usually you will get more coolant drawn into the engine when it cools down and see a cloud when you start up. In the worst case the coolant can fill the cylindars and cause hydraulic lock. This can damage a piston or bend a rod or valve.

[stope4]

I'm going to guess that the white smoke is a head gasket. Maybe another gasket that will be replaced with the head gasket. Not an expert on the design of these engines but gm, ford, chrysler would be a head gasket. I don't think these are that much different so my guess would be a head gasket. If you are pretty handy, you could do that yourself for cheap and get it done in a weekend. Hardest part is getting everything out of the way and timing after you reinstall the heads.