Just got done installing new rear struts and springs. What a PITA!!!
The main problem is rust in an 11 year old car. Every bolt was frozen. I used the best...Kroil, to loosen them, applied heat and an impact gun...but no go. A nut cracker would not fit over the main two 19mm nuts, because of interference from the mount flanges. I ended up using a small die grinder (dremel sized) to cut, laboriously, through each nut. Then came a nasty surprise. The dealers don't stock the mount bolt and nuts. They had to order them which takes a couple days.
It took about 4 hours to just do the rear mounts (after wasting too much time trying to free the nuts.) I had to stop there...to order new bolts and nuts...but was able to get and salvage enough bolts and nuts to reassemble the rear.
With new rear mounts, bumpers, Tokico struts and Vogtland lowering springs, the car was hugely stiffer in the back. Before, just one person sitting in the back and a mild bump was enough to bottom it. With three people in the back the tire was sitting with 1/8th inch of room between the tire and fender and the mildest turn caused the tires to scrape. Now I could stand on the door sill in the back and jump up and down and still have more finger room between the wheel and rim.
Driving feels funny...you get even more motion in the front as all load inputs are transferred from the stiff back to the front causing the front end to yaw...like a boat accelerating and turning. Yet, strangely, it handles better than when both the front and back were soft. I tried to see if I could break the rear loose by tossing it around but the inch and a half of lowering seems to counteract the stiffness and it stays well planted. Getting on the juice when coming out of a corner appears to cause about the same amount of wash out and understeer as before.
As far as ride, it definitely feels stiffer in the back...but not worse than my Acura TL...not excessively so. The ride is much quieter....without the old loose mounts knocking over bumps and without the tires scraping. Funny, I hadn't really noticed the suspension noise coming from the front, because the rear was so noisy but now I do.
I can't wait to get the new front and rear shock mount bolts I ordered so I can get the full effect of the suspension upgrade....though I'm less enthused about dealing with another half dozen frozen bolts and nuts.
FYI, the stock shocks were shot...but mostly in compression. The extension damping seemed to still be pretty good. This masked how bad the shocks were doing the shock test where you push down on a corner and wait to see how quickly the car damps out. It would damp well on each rebound and only cycle maybe three times. Not great but the reality was it was much worse in actual driving as it didn't damp at all on compression. After the changing the rear strut and spring it damps in one cycle...barely traveling over center. The front is a pogo stick in comparison.
Here is the Vogtland spring compared to stock.
Here is the Tokico strut with Vogtland spring assembled compared to stock (with spring compressors.) The Vogtland was short enough and soft enough at the travel top not to require compressors to install.
Last edited by ImDisaster; 03-10-2010 at 11:06 AM.
I removed the brake back plate to provide easy access to the 19mm mounting bolts and I am glad I did. I discovered a fair amount of rust from water leakage which was about to get into the axle hub bearing. I cleaned things up but had too much pitting for a new Oring to seal so I used a bead of red RTV. I have a 99 Avalon. Now I know my bearings are dry and will stay that way until they fail from something other than water exposure.
With the backing plate off, I could get a square bite on the 19mm bolt. Using a breaker bar and a 16" pipe wrench for an extension, the mounting nuts cried "Uncle".
I removed the brake back plate to provide easy access to the 19mm mounting bolts and I am glad I did. I discovered a fair amount of rust from water leakage which was about to get into the axle hub bearing. I cleaned things up but had too much pitting for a new Oring to seal so I used a bead of red RTV. I have a 99 Avalon. Now I know my bearings are dry and will stay that way until they fail from something other than water exposure.
With the backing plate off, I could get a square bite on the 19mm bolt. Using a breaker bar and a 16" pipe wrench for an extension, the mounting nuts cried "Uncle".
I thought of removing the brake rotor, but was afraid I'd open a whole 'nother can of worms. I could imagine the brake bolts shearing off in the knuckle. Also, access to those bolts looked as bad, or worse, than the access to the strut bolts. How did you approach them and did they stick badly too? I will have to deal with the brakes eventually. The rear pads look a bit worn and the rotor more so.
There was a hellacious pile of rust underneath the wheel when I got done. I wasn't sure where it was all coming from.
P.S. I have an 18" breaker bar but darned if I could find a pipe around here to add to it. Must have thrown them all out during the last garage cleaning. I also have a "625ft.lb." HF impact wrench but that didn't budge it.
Last edited by ImDisaster; 03-02-2010 at 04:42 AM.
Today I did the front springs and struts. The entire job took 2 and a half hours...much better than the rear. No seat to remove to get at the top of the towers. More clearance around strut bolts...freed up with 25" breaker bar...no nut cutting and splitting required.
The new Vogtland front springs were stiffer (then the rear) and therefore required a spring compressor to assemble onto the struts.
The old OEM Toyota shocks were really shot (the Avy is at 105,000 miles and I don't know if they were ever replaced.) When bouncing the front of the car up and down you could hear them hissing. When I lifted the removed shock by the top of the piston shaft, the shaft just slid out of the piston...in a second. There was effectively zero rebound damping. The front springs, on the other hand, looked fine, unlike the rear ones that had sagged. I had to replace the front springs anyway, with Vogtland, to match the lowered rear springs. The front pillow bearing looked new. I suspect the previous owner must have had it replaced...maybe because of the front end noise. He should have replaced the shocks as well. In the end, there were parts that definitely didn't need replacing. The upper front shock bracket is a simple piece of steel that bolts to the body. I could have saved a few bucks not buying that. The front strut bolts were salvageable, though I replaced them with unrusted new ones.
After buttoning it all up the first thing I noticed was the height. The car seemed wayyy lower. It is surprising what 1.8" of lowering feels like. Took it for a test drive and it was insanely better. No more knocking sounds from the front shocks. I was surprised to find the ride still quite soft...softer than our '03 Acura TL. It still feels loose during sudden steering inputs, but corners much flatter and assuredly. The stiffer Tokico shocks and lowering springs by no means turned the Avalon into a sports car....or even a sporty car, but they do improve handling.
P.S. There isn't any camber adjustment, in the Avalon's front suspension. Lowering the car increases the negative camber...and toe-in. The toe can be adjusted as in all cars. I'm going to have to measure the camber to decide if it is too much. If so, will have to find an aftermarket camber adjustment kit.
Last edited by ImDisaster; 03-10-2010 at 11:50 AM.
Here it is with 17" 50 series. I don't think you can go much bigger without rolling the rims. i have damage on one tire from scraping before I installed the new shocks and springs.
I was flipping through my owner's manual the other day (probably a textbook definition of boring) and found that my 97 has a lifetime warranty on the shocks and struts to the original owner of the car...that's me!!
No problems yet, but I was unaware of this warranty...
what size are the tires? whats the width? im running 215 45 right now and when its lowered id like to be "flush" or near it atleast lol. i see the front looks lower then the back, do u still have ur spare in there? sub?
what size are the tires? whats the width? im running 215 45 right now and when its lowered id like to be "flush" or near it atleast lol. i see the front looks lower then the back, do u still have ur spare in there? sub?
Those are 17" 215/50 series and with the wheels, from TireRack, they sit inside the fenders. If I recall, the back was lowered .2" less than the front. I think that makes sense, since the back will move more under load. This is because the back runs softer springs (less weight) and will move more when people are in the rear seat. Spare is in back. Mine didn't come with sub so I installed one under the driver's seat.
These tires rubbed, in the back, with the stock suspension and there is even a little rubber missing from one of them from the scraping. I haven't had a problem the new suspension, other than when hitting speed bumps a bit too fast. The problem would go away if the rear fenders were rolled and you could probably even get away with wider rubber if you did that...maybe 235.
Practically, I don't think I'd want to go lower. Lost almost 2' in ground clearance and I have to be a lot more careful what I drive over and of parking lot curbs. My regular floor jack no longer fits under where I used to jack it up and I now have to use a low profile jack.
Last edited by ImDisaster; 05-17-2010 at 09:33 AM.
Your car looks great! Just wondering: did you have to use special, shorter struts/shocks with the lowering springs or would stock-spec struts/shocks work? On my '85 BMW 6 series I had to get Bilstein "Sport" (as opposed to "standard") struts/shocks when I installed a set of Eibach lowering springs. The "sport" versions are supposed to be slightly shorter, to work with shorter springs.
The PO of my '96 Avy had recently installed new Monroes front and rear; if I install lowering springs it'd be a shame to let them go to waste.
Where did you buy your parts? From the short time I've owned my Avy it seems like it could benefit from larger front & rear anti-sway bars, if nothing else.
It's amazing how much more driving enjoyment you can get out of mods like this. On my previous DD, a '96 Accord, I installed Tokiko shocks, H&R lowering springs, and a rear anti-sway bar, plus camber correction kits front and rear and 16X7 alloys with Yokos. The car handled like a real sports car; would out-corner Porsches through the local canyon roads. It was actually more fun to drive than my BMW.
Last edited by American Pie; 05-17-2010 at 10:56 AM.
Your car looks great! Just wondering: did you have to use special, shorter struts/shocks with the lowering springs or would stock-spec struts/shocks work? On my '85 BMW 6 series I had to get Bilstein "Sport" (as opposed to "standard") struts/shocks when I installed a set of Eibach lowering springs. The "sport" versions are supposed to be slightly shorter, to work with shorter springs.
The PO of my '96 Avy had recently installed new Monroes front and rear; if I install lowering springs it'd be a shame to let them go to waste.
Where did you buy your parts? From the short time I've owned my Avy it seems like it could benefit from larger front & rear anti-sway bars, if nothing else.
It's amazing how much more driving enjoyment you can get out of mods like this. On my previous DD, a '96 Accord, I installed Tokiko shocks, H&R lowering springs, and a rear anti-sway bar, plus camber correction kits front and rear and 16X7 alloys with Yokos. The car handled like a real sports car; would out-corner Porsches through the local canyon roads. It was actually more fun to drive than my BMW.
I'm using stock Tokico shocks, which I suspect, are the same ones they sell with VogtlandSuspension sells with their lowering kits.
The Avy drives much better...much less dive and roll. The weak link now is the sloppy steering. I'm not sure how much of this is age and how much is just what you get with the Avalon's steering. The steering is a bit of a weak link and will need replacing soon. Mine is making a clicking noise, which makes me think a gear is on it's way out.
How much is your camber off since you've lowered the car? Is it very noticeable?
As nice as it looks though, I'm not sure if I want to lower my car and deal with ground clearance and camber issues (I've got to keep in mind this is supposed to be my wife's daily driver). However, I WOULD be interested in a rear sway bar.
I've done some searches and it seems there aren't many vendors who supply performance parts for Avalons and Camrys. Where's a good source for a sway bar and other performance goodies? Can I safely assume that any suspension parts for a 3rd generation Camry will also fit the 1st generation Avalon?
How much is your camber off since you've lowered the car? Is it very noticeable?
As nice as it looks though, I'm not sure if I want to lower my car and deal with ground clearance and camber issues (I've got to keep in mind this is supposed to be my wife's daily driver). However, I WOULD be interested in a rear sway bar.
I've done some searches and it seems there aren't many vendors who supply performance parts for Avalons and Camrys. Where's a good source for a sway bar and other performance goodies? Can I safely assume that any suspension parts for a 3rd generation Camry will also fit the 1st generation Avalon?
I didn't measure the actual camber but I haven't seen any tire wear issues (but it's early yet), and it handles much better...especially when pushed hard. Worst case I'll buy one of those camber nut adjustment kits, but I suspect it is fine the way it is. Keep in mind, this car (and I've seen others like it) had trashed rear springs and was riding low to begin with....for a long time. I'll take a camber gauge to it and report back here when I get some time.
The ground clearance is, IMHO, the biggest compromise. Having said that, I've never bottomed any underbody components since making the change. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually has better dynamic underbody clearance because of the stiffer springs and shocks. Before, the wheels rubbed inside the fenderwells way to often...now, it never happens. I've only noticed the lost clearance when jacking up the car to change the oil, and when parking up close to curbs. Before those curbs were rarely an issue, now I have to park it more care, like my Acura...or how you would most modern cars with their lower front ends and air dams.
Lost two of the aftermarket wheels to potholes and the third one to an unfortunate intersection mishap. The wheels were no longer available so had to replace all 4. This time I bought a name brand, vs. TireRack's "Sport" brand. I'm hoping Konig's will be easier to find if I need to replace one. These are also, fairly light, at 17lbs. Probably 5 pounds lighter, which really helps performance.
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Also, access to those bolts looked as bad, or worse, than the access to the strut bolts. How did you approach them and did they stick badly too? I will have to deal with the brakes eventually. The rear pads look a bit worn and the rotor more so.
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