1998 Avalon wheel/road/unkown noise

[rod2216]

I have a 1998 Avalon that I bought new. It has about 50k miles and has been well maintained. The only major service has been a timing belt/water pump change about 6 months ago. First, I want to apologize for the length of this posting. Second, I am learning how difficult it can be to determine the source of noise that is coming from a car. A couple of months ago I noticed a noise that appeared to be coming from the rear of the car. It sounded to me like ‘tire road noise’ or maybe like the noise you would hear if you were running snow tires on dry payment. The noise was in sync with the speed of the car – not related to engine speed or to transmission gear selected. The noise continued when the transmission was placed in neutral and the car was coasting. I think the noise either doesn’t change or changes very little when you turn right or left. There is no change when you apply the brakes. It was getting a little louder over a period of several weeks. I tried everything I could think of to determine the source of the noise. I rotated the tires – no change. The tires are Michelin and have had them for about 2 years. I removed the bottom part of the back seat and rode in the backseat while my wife drove the car. I thought the noise was coming from the right rear, but could not be sure. I wanted to check the rear pads and bearings, so I pulled both rear calipers and rotors – all seemed normal – brake pads were good. I backed off on the parking brake shoes to make sure they were not the source of the noise. When I turned the axel hubs, there was no play and they seemed to rotate smoothly. I wasn’t sure what they were supposed to feel like. I also removed the front calipers and rotors. Everything looked good. I checked the front wheels for play, but there was none.

I took the car to a Toyota dealer and asked them to try to find the source of the noise. They kept it a day or two - checked it out and said I had a bad right rear wheel bearing. I decided to replace the axel hubs on both sides. I tried to buy quality parts so I bought two new Timken axel hubs. I assumed they were quality because of the price. I verified on several different web sites the model that I needed. When they came in, they were exactly like the ones on the car, except I couldn’t believe how easy they were to turn. They required 1/5 of the effort to spin them as compared to the old ones. I installed them and just knew that I had my problem fixed.

Dang – after installing the new axel hubs, I still have the noise, but it seems to be slightly different now. It now has a slightly higher pitch and sounds more like a whine and is still in sync with the car speed. I can hear it easily at just about any cruising speed and can hear it when slowing down to about 10 MPH. It is more pronounced when the windows are closed.

It still seems to be coming from the rear, but I could be mistaken. I guess it could be a front wheel bearing or something else. When I installed the new axel hubs, I noticed that there wasn’t much grease in them. It was easy to see into the bearings. Should I add grease and what type of grease do I add. I’m at the point of big time frustration. I would really appreciate some suggestions to help me find the source of the noise. Thanks for any help!

[robcam13]

drive the car down the road and turn the wheel back and forth. if the noise changes then its probably a wheel bearing. basically you are moving the weight of the car from one side to the other.

[rod2216]

I really appreciate the response. I have an update. I went to each tire with a jack and a list of three items to check – items that have been suggested by others. So I went to each wheel, jacked the wheel and checked for cupped tires, brakes pads dragging and for play in the bearings. The first three wheels that I checked – no problems. The last wheel was one of my two new Timken axel hubs. No cupping, no brake pad drag. But I found about 1/8 to 3/16” of play at the outside edge of the tire. I could hear a ‘bump-bump’ when I shook the wheel. I immediately thought I had not properly tightened the four axel hub bolts. After removing the caliper and rotor, I found all four bolts to be very tight – torqued to proper setting. With the wheel removed, I checked the hub for play and it had just enough to feel the play holding the hub. It took several minutes for me to realize that I still had my old axel hub (the old good one) so I installed it. No noise. Apparently, the new Timken axel hub was bad. My supplier said they would replace it.

Update – they sent a replacement Timken axel-hub and the replacement had ‘play’ just like the bad one. I have returned the replacement. Unless someone knows something bad about a Beck Arnley axel bearing hub, I’ll probably order one. I assume that there should be no play in the hub. Right?

[fourwheeler]

rod2216, you are correct, there should be no play in a brand new bearing. Is there a great difference in price between the Timken bearing you purchased and one from Toyota? Toyotapartsman will give you 30% off list price. PM him directly if you are interested.

Is it possible the play is coming from somewhere else?

[bob2]

Originally Posted by rod2216

I really appreciate the response. I have an update. I went to each tire with a jack and a list of three items to check – items that have been suggested by others. So I went to each wheel, jacked the wheel and checked for cupped tires, brakes pads dragging and for play in the bearings. The first three wheels that I checked – no problems. The last wheel was one of my two new Timken axel hubs. No cupping, no brake pad drag. But I found about 1/8 to 3/16” of play at the outside edge of the tire. I could hear a ‘bump-bump’ when I shook the wheel. I immediately thought I had not properly tightened the four axel hub bolts. After removing the caliper and rotor, I found all four bolts to be very tight – torqued to proper setting. With the wheel removed, I checked the hub for play and it had just enough to feel the play holding the hub. It took several minutes for me to realize that I still had my old axel hub (the old good one) so I installed it. No noise. Apparently, the new Timken axel hub was bad. My supplier said they would replace it.

Update – they sent a replacement Timken axel-hub and the replacement had ‘play’ just like the bad one. I have returned the replacement. Unless someone knows something bad about a Beck Arnley axel bearing hub, I’ll probably order one. I assume that there should be no play in the hub. Right?

there will be a minimal amount of play in any bearing. it must be there, for when the bearing expands as it heats up, during use. there is plenty of grease in the bearings. it's "around the corner" (in the races) where you can't see it. these cars never seem to need wheel bearings. mine has almost 200K on the chassis and they are still as quiet as the day they were new!

the kind of noise you describe can be the product of a rubber insulator wearing through, establishing metal to metal contact (where there was none, before) and thereby transmitting sound, that was not previously heard. 50 K miles is nothing BUT rubber deteriorates with time, as well as physical wear.

your car is 13 years old. in some ways, it will act like a 13 year old car. simple way to have this out of your hair is to sell the car to me...

[rod2216]

Sorry to be late in responding. I have had several projects lately.

Guys, I really appreciate the comments. I found that the discounted price on a Toyota axel-hub is about $266. Aftermarket axel-hubs are about $75 to $150. Not sure which one I will buy. Fortunately, I don’t have to have it right away.

I especially liked the comment about selling it. I love that car. It has factory leather, sport wheels and CD player. Since new, I have kept all the fluids changed and it gets washed weekly and waxed every 3 months. I perform all of the service work and keep a log. I would guess that 90% of the cars I have sold have been to friends or relatives.

Thanks again for your thoughts.