Higher mileage specific oil

[robdtoyota]

First post of mine: I've loooked for threads that have previously addresed this issue: I have a 2000 Avalon with 94,000 miles on it. I've only owned it two years and 20,000 miles. Do not know what the previous owner used for oil. I have been using Pennzoil, Castrol or Quaker State 5w30 for higher mileage (over 75k mile engines). I also know about the sludge issues. Should I switch to synthetic or go with syn blend, use conventional and change every 3,500 or use the 5w30 for high mileage? Thanks - Rob.

[avalonshoe]

i've had M1 synthetic in my avy since day one. it got 120k on it now and im switchin to pennzoil plat. it seems to run better with the pennzoil plat. lower rpms and faster revs (at least thats what i noticed). i would say go synthetic regardless of what type u use..

[kegunder]

Clean it out using auto-rx. (Disclaimer: I have no link to this product, other than I'm using it.)

Most oil fanatics will tell you any oil is fine if you do 3000 mile change intervals. They'll also tell you how great synthetics are... especially for longer oil change intervals.

Do not try for longer oil change intervals in your avalon!

[TMack409]

I've got a 1996 Avalon with 185k miles and I've used 10W30 synthetic REDLINE oil since I bought the car [with 40K on it in 1998]. I change oil&filter every 10K with new filter on at the midpoint (5k). I still get 32 MPG on the highway with no A/C at 65 to 70 MPH.

If you use regular ole dino oil, you must change it at 3k. Especially if you short trip the car often. (FWIW this was the problem [widely discussed on the blogs] with the 1MZ-FE engine blowing blue smoke - nitwits following the 7500 mile factory recommended interval with dino 5w30 and short tripping the car.) Toyota should be shot for this interval recommendation on dino oil on this engine. Actually might have been 6K interval now that I think back. Regardless, 3k is max change interval for dino oil in the 1MZ-FE due to the design of the journals, passages, gallies etc etc.

I have had the valve covers off the engine recently. Some minimalist sludge up in the covers - left over from the original owner failing to change oil often enough. But the cams and valve train were clean, if a bit amber colored.

[avalonshoe]

hey tmack,

howcome u use 10w-30 instead of 5w? its a higher viscosity oil right? do u have freezing issues?

[TMack409]

Originally Posted by avalonshoe

hey tmack,

howcome u use 10w-30 instead of 5w? its a higher viscosity oil right? do u have freezing issues?

You really can't compare synthetic weights to dino weights.....but to answer your question directly, once I did try REDLINE 5W30, and I did in fact get some brief light engine clicking with 5w30 REDLINE just after startup after about 5k miles. I switched back to 10W30 and have never had the problem.
Frankly, I really think it was a case of "YMMV".

[TMack409]

Originally Posted by kegunder

Do not try for longer oil change intervals in your avalon!

The only case in which this would be true - would be if you used some of the lowend syns - like Castrol syn which is nothing but hydrocracked crap, ie highly refined petroleum. Actually, all of the off-the-shelf syn is junk unless it's Group IV - which IIRC only M1's highend syn (the one with the gold top IIRC) meets this spec. I would only trust M1 Gold to about 10K. There are other Group IV syns on the market - but you rarely find them "off-the-shelf".

Conversely, you could feel very conservative running the only Group V syn (REDLINE) for 10 to 12k - no reservations.

No affiliation, bla bla bla.

[ChiTDI]

You got some good response above, my case is pure syn w/5k on an '02 at 100k and no issues. Your money.

[aznstylez]

Originally Posted by TMack409

The only case in which this would be true - would be if you used some of the lowend syns - like Castrol syn which is nothing but hydrocracked crap, ie highly refined petroleum. Actually, all of the off-the-shelf syn is junk unless it's Group IV - which IIRC only M1's highend syn (the one with the gold top IIRC) meets this spec. I would only trust M1 Gold to about 10K. There are other Group IV syns on the market - but you rarely find them "off-the-shelf".

Conversely, you could feel very conservative running the only Group V syn (REDLINE) for 10 to 12k - no reservations.

No affiliation, bla bla bla.

If Castrol Synthetic is hydrocracked crap, why does Toyota uses it on it's vehicles? They even use Mobil 1. I get the question all the time, "Which one do you want?"

[TMack409]

Originally Posted by aznstylez

If Castrol Synthetic is hydrocracked crap, why does Toyota uses it on it's vehicles? They even use Mobil 1. I get the question all the time, "Which one do you want?"

Because it really doesn't matter what you use if you change it every 3000 miles. And .....Toyota probably has a good margin of profit with the off-the-shelf syns....

There are now 3 grades of M1: Regular. High Mileage. And Extended Performance. Which one are they offering? I'm betting it's the low-end one that they had to formulate in order to compete with Castrol's hydrocrak.

[avalonshoe]

group V could be based off any combination of anything in group I-IV right? how would u know the mix unless its listed on the bottle

[TMack409]

Originally Posted by avalonshoe

group V could be based off any combination of anything in group I-IV right? how would u know the mix unless its listed on the bottle

A Group V REDLINE syn is unique. It is almost totally man made: From Polyol esters (POEs), which comprise most of it's base stock. It shares nothing with Groups I-IV (except the small additive package which is contained in all oils). FWIW REDLINE contains less of this additive package than all others. In fact, M1's Extended Performance syn has to use lots of additives to achieve that "extended performance".

It's very difficult to ascertain exactly what's in an oil. Lot's of manufacturers want to keep it top secret [and for good reason] - esp at the low end of the spectrum where they are fighting hardest for Joe Six Pack dollars.... a battle that Castrol is mostly winning [due to the cheapening of their formula, which allows for more advertising dollars to be spent].

Not to pick on anyone in particular, AFAIK, Royal Purple does not publish their exact mix of content in their syn. IIRC Royal Purple is Group IV. But they might have slid backwards to Group III in order to allow for more ad dollars. I've seen more and more of them lately.

You would probably have to write the manufacturer to get the Group number. But trust, me they all have it - some just not so proud of it.
-Group I: Traditional dino motor oils (mineral)
-Group II: Valvoline MaxLife - the only dino oil that meets that standard (that I know of).
-Group III: Castrol syn and their ilk. Highly refined petroleum (mineral oil). Hydrocracked. crap! Most widely available, off the shelf, syns fit this category. The worst of the Castrol syn IMO is the 5W30 /Horrific shear properties under high operating temps. If you absolutely insist on buying and using Castrol syn - use anything but their 5W30. You must change GIII oil every 3K. Period.
-Group IV: The better M1 (extended service) syns and Amsoil and maybe RP
(In the old days, the SAE mandated that in order to be called "synthetic" - Synthetic base stocks must be Poly-alpha-Olefin [API rated = Group 4].Sadly, however, the SAE dropped the PAO requirement awhile back and Castrol jumped in with their hydrocracked crap and are now get away with calling it "synthetic".) [consumer fraud IMO])
-Group V: Of course - REDLINE (12,000-15,000 mile interval on modern cars). I don't chance it past 10,000 on my 12 year old 1MZ-FE. But even at 10K drain interval, the cost of the REDLINE offsets the cost of three -3K mile oil changes when using dino.