Here are 2 posts that I posted on PriusChat and thought I'd cut and paste them over here. I'd be interested in your comments, pros or cons. Hopefully if you are not aware on the way the OD works, it can save you $$$'s. I can only say this is the way it works on our 2000 Avalon XLS w/108k miles on it. But I would imagine it should work on any Automatic with an OD that freewheels in OD, and shuts down the injectors if not in OD and the transmission is spinning the engine fast enough to power the accessories. Except I don't know how you can tell w/o a GPH or HPR gauge. Here are the posts:
First post:
Did not want to cluttler the Prius threads!
If you’re only interested in Prius fuel savings, you may want to skip this post. The following information does not apply to the Prius and, in fact, would have the opposite affect on Prius gas mileage. However, since many members also have non-hybrids and some specifically Avalon’s, I thought that I would share my findings. I’m sure that some of you are already aware of the following information, but for those that aren‘t, here goes. I’m also fairly sure that the Avalon isn’t the only car that works this way.
I have been using our ScangaugeII on our 2000 Avalon XLT w/108k miles, for some time, while waiting for our Prius. I found the GPH & HPR gauges particularly enlightening and thought that I would share my findings. The metro Atlanta topography is rather hilly, with very few, long, level, stretches. On the down hills, I tend to disengage overdrive and/or drop it down to "2" (automatic), before applying the brakes, to keep from gaining speed. Before ScangaugeII, I noticed that on medium to long, down hill runs, the Avalon’s trip computer would max out at 99.9 MPG. This was whether overdrive was engaged or not. I assumed that this meant that the engine was basically getting the least amount of fuel and therefore the maximum MPG. The ScangaugeII revealed that this was only partially true. With overdrive engaged, the car must be freewheeling. The GPH & HPR gauges would level out at their normal idle readings. I interpret this as meaning the forward motion of the car is not spinning the engine and that the engine needs to use fuel to run the fan belt to charge the battery, run the A/C, power brakes, power steering, water pump, ETC. However, when I disengage the OD and/or drop it into "2" , the GPH & HPR gauges both drop to 00.0, meaning no fuel. The transmission is spinning the engine fast enough to power the accessories. The injectors are shut down and you are not using any fuel. Therefore, after several weeks of experimenting we are now enjoying a ~2 MPG improvement in our gas mileage, around town. The OD button is on the Shifter and is easily engaged or disengaged for down hill when drifting above the speed I want to maintain. Shifting out of OD and/or into "2" also saves on brakes. The engine will be spinning in either case, unlike the Prius unless in "B" mode. Shifting in and out of OD is smooth, all the way up to posted limits and I don’t drop into "2" above 30mph which is also smooth. Drive "2" also makes for better control and handling on some of the hilly winding 25mph ess curves in the metro Atlanta area. Again, I just though that I would share my findings in case some of you may be able to take advantage of it. We are experiencing a ~2 MPG improvement in gas mileage as a result. We were getting 17-19 MPG around town and now getting 19-21. Haven’t made a trip lately. Highway has been 24-26 in the past. I though that I always knew how to get the good gas mileage, not that I always drove that way, but usually. This is not a paid ad, but the ScangaugeII will definitely pay for itself at the pumps, for us anyway. I hope you find this helpful.
Follow-up post:
Just a quick update. It reminds me a little of the Glide portion of the Pulse and Glide technique for the Prius, about which i've been reading. Of course it depends on the route, but I've been able to bring our 17-21 mpg up to 25+ mpg on some of our hillier routes, around town. It will probably also save some fuel driving up I-85 to Martinsville, VA. in October, if we still don't have our Prius. It takes a little practice, like I hear the pulse and glide does, but we're averaging a ~2 mpg, or ~10%, increase, from tank to tank. Don't know how you can tell w/o a GPH or HPR, gauge but if you drive an automatic with OD, it may also work on your non-hybrid. GPH & HPR gauges drop from average idle, 0.45GPH & 7.5HPR, to 00.0GPH & 000.0HPR. You are not using any fuel as on the downhill with OD disengaged. You want to use OD on the level and uphill to save fuel, but disengage it going downhill if you can maintain speed w/o using the accelerator. Perhaps if any PC members have experienced this, they can share their year/make/model with the other members that don't have a scanguage. If you know that OD in your car works that way and have a tach but not a scangauge, note your Rpm @ idle. Coasting on a downhill, when you see the tach drop to idle RPM your are probably freewheeling and the injectors are probably suppling fuel to the engine to maintain idle. If you disengage OD you will see the RPM jump to the normal RPM you would expect to see at that speed on a level road with OD disengaged. This may be more than some drives want to deal with, but it really easy to use. Just thought that sharing this might help a few PC members to save a few bucks at the pump.
BTW Two other thing that I've done lately, but haven't gone throught enough tanks to tell if they made a difference, but I honestly believe they have. I've also just noticed "May contain up to 10% ethanol" labels on the gas pumps in our metro Atlanta area, which muck up mpg comparisions. I switched to 5w/30w full synthetic on the last oil change, 108k. My wifes says, I think it running smoother. I know this is anecdotal but it was volunteered, not solicited. I also upped the psi in my tires to 42/40psi, the MAX psi the Michlein MXV4's is 44psi. However, on individual routes, that we previously got ~20mpg around town at best; between learning how to play the OD, the Mobil1, and the increased psi, we are getting 25+mpg, which we only could obtain on highway before. I can say this with confidence, since we keep, and are on our second with the Avalon, Auto Log books, for every fill-up since we drive it off of the lot in Feb. 2000.
I'm sure most of you are already aware of these. Sometimes it just helps to hear it from someone else.
Interesting Dave and thanks. The 05+ Avalons don't control OD with a button on the shifter. You move the shift lever to the left and that takes you into 4th gear out 0f 5 in the 05 - 07 models and out of 6th for the 08+.
I do have a scan guage II that I just bought a week ago.
So If I set the SG to read GPH I'd want to see 0.0? What is HPR?
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MikeS.
Escaped from Kalifornia in 1998
Now living in West by God Virginny
A Master Mason under the Grand Lodge of WVa
Interesting Dave and thanks. The 05+ Avalons don't control OD with a button on the shifter. You move the shift lever to the left and that takes you into 4th gear out 0f 5 in the 05 - 07 models and out of 6th for the 08+.
I do have a scan guage II that I just bought a week ago.
So If I set the SG to read GPH I'd want to see 0.0? What is HPR?
Thanks for your reply. I'm assuming that if the Gallon Per Hour & HorsePoweR XGauges, that I set up, go to 00.0 that the ECU has shut off the injectors. No fuel, free mileage, increased MPG.
Good luck and let me know how you make out. I've had over 100 reads and zero replies on PC. I guess they're only interested in their Prius'. I've never run across this anywhere else. Anyway, thanks again, I'd just like to know if I'm on the right track or not.
Dave
I'm just throwing this out there because I've heard a lot about it on the BITOG web site. I've also heard that Toyota has approved the following too:
Run a lighter weight oil in your car. (5w-20, 0w-20 etc.)
I totally agree. We just switched to Mobil1, but stayed at 5w-30 on the last oil change at 108k miles. I stayed with the 5w-30 and will probably go to the Clean Extended Wear formulation, if I can find it, because of the 108k. I'd probably have gone with the 0w=20 if I had started when it was new. I'm concerned about awitching now, especiall here in Atlanta. It's been inthe 90's. I'd like to put another 100k on it. I couldn't find it, locally, before the last oil change. My wife and I both agree that I just seems to run smoother, quieter. I know that's not scientific. We also ran our tire pressure on our Michlien MXV4's up to 42/40 front/rear, rated max is 44psi. Cannot tell the individual effects but between the OD, Mobil1, PSI we have increased our mpg from 17-19 around town to 25+ on some routes. And, this is at the same time the "May contain up to 10% ethanol" labels began to appear in the gas pumps.
Thanks for the input!
Dave
best increase is using 93+ octane. it is tough to stomach at the pump, but the difference is only 20-30 CENTS more per gallon. i get 31mpg on the freeway with the ac on with 93+, 26mpg if i don't. the difference in mileage completely offsets the cost of the gas. You get more power because the computer advances the ignition timing until it can't burn the fuel properly which means more power. more power and fuel economy. the gas would have to be more than 70 Cents a gallon more to make it not worth my while to buy premium.
Update: Our son is using the SGII on his 2000 Maxima. It seems drop out of freewheeling on it's own, allowing GPH & HPR to go to 00.0 w/o having to take it out of OD manually. Anyone else experiencing this?
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Happy Motoring!
Dave & Joan Reed
2000 Avalon XLS, Silver Spruce, 108K miles
I don't know what ya'll guys are experimenting but I've been getting 21city/27-28hwy in my 2001 Toyota Avalon that has 188,723 miles on it since day one, with hard driving or not. And I use Castrol Synthetic 5w-30 as recommended on the oil cap. I use 87 octane gas also with the 10% Ethanol. The "May contain 10% Ethanol" has appeared in the U.S. for a long time.
Dude, if you're not getting what is posted on here http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Sp...alon&trimid=-1 when not using that gauge thing and putting between 32-36 psi into your tires, there's something wrong with the car. Sure it's true that you save gas with a higher psi in your tires but it's dangerous and rough at the same time. I get at least 352 miles for city driving with 16.274 gallons in my tank. That's 21 miles a gallon for city driving. I get at least 469 miles hwy driving with about the same amout of gallons in the tank. That's 28 miles per gallon hwy.
like i said, i can get 31 mpg through virginia with 7% grades and ac on with 93+ octane. That gas would have to be almost 70-80 cents more per gallon to not get the payoff. it hurts at the pump initially, but that gas burns slow. i just broke 27.5 in the wifes crv through the same area of rt 64 with ac, and about 1000lbs extra in the crv... people and vacation supplies. that truck is rated at 26 mpg with nothing in it on pump gas. Tire pressure and air filter are easy and the right thing to do, higher octane is the best. sunoco 94 is the only way to fly. Run your tank dry and run another with 93-94 octane. If you don't get 5% better milage, the cost of gas is not worth it. 1.5 mpg on an average of 28 makes the more expensive gas cheaper because of the extra mileage. i have another tip which will increase hp and voltage if anyone thinks that I am still sane. anyone that thinks low octane is better for your car is missing a lot of brain cells. go to sunoco and put 86 in your ride, the only place that I know of that you can find less than 87. i won't put that shit in my lawn mower. fill it up and see what kind of rat crap performance and fuel mileage that you get from it. you will probably throw a knock sensor CEL at the minimum
You're all correct I'm sure. I get ~25mpg around metro Atlanta on weekends and outside of rush hour traffic here in Atlanta. I don't know what your rush hour traffic is like, but metro Atlanta has one of the worst. I forget the exact numbers, buy it's somewhere around 10-12mpg for my wife's ~30 miles per day round trip to work 4 days per week. That's why it averages out to 19-21. It's not the car and we do get ~29-30 on a long expressway trip. The fact that Atlanta is over 1000 ft above sea level doesn't help either.
E10 labels on gas pumps have only been around starting this year in GA.
That gauge thing as someone called it, pointed out, as what I was trying to pass on, that the 2000 Avalon XLS is reluctant to turn the injectors off on a downhill run, while in overdrive. I was merely pointing out that before using the brake, if you drop it out of overdrive, it will turn off the injectors sooner, thus saving gas. If you leave it in overdrive it will free wheel and the engine needs to burn fuel to idle to support the accessories. If you take it out of overdrive, and/or downshift to maintain speed, the transmission will spin the engine to provide power to the accessories and the injectors will shut down, thus not using gas on your downhill runs. The OEM instrumentation on the Avalon does not identify this. The gauge thing pointed this out and as a result I have been able to improve my gas mileage ~10% when driving in this extremely hilly topography around metro Atlanta and North Georgia area.
__________________
Happy Motoring!
Dave & Joan Reed
2000 Avalon XLS, Silver Spruce, 108K miles
like i said, i can get 31 mpg through virginia with 7% grades and ac on with 93+ octane. That gas would have to be almost 70-80 cents more per gallon to not get the payoff. it hurts at the pump initially, but that gas burns slow. i just broke 27.5 in the wifes crv through the same area of rt 64 with ac, and about 1000lbs extra in the crv... people and vacation supplies. that truck is rated at 26 mpg with nothing in it on pump gas. Tire pressure and air filter are easy and the right thing to do, higher octane is the best. sunoco 94 is the only way to fly. Run your tank dry and run another with 93-94 octane. If you don't get 5% better milage, the cost of gas is not worth it. 1.5 mpg on an average of 28 makes the more expensive gas cheaper because of the extra mileage. i have another tip which will increase hp and voltage if anyone thinks that I am still sane. anyone that thinks low octane is better for your car is missing a lot of brain cells. go to sunoco and put 86 in your ride, the only place that I know of that you can find less than 87. i won't put that shit in my lawn mower. fill it up and see what kind of rat crap performance and fuel mileage that you get from it. you will probably throw a knock sensor CEL at the minimum
I agree with Eurobob. These have been my same observations. I've been able to consistently achieve 31 to 32 MPG on the highway and driving 65 MPH in cruise control. In particular, I agree about the difference between low and high octane gas. In the end the cost per gallon is the same, but with better burn characteristics and grade-specific detergents added I'll take the higher octane fuel.
TrailDust
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2008 Highlander Base 4WD
2002 Avalon XL
1987 Suzuki Samurai 4X4 - Treading where no Jeep can follow....
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