2000 avalon - many problems

[speck]

ok, my mother-in-law has a 2000 avalon, which is having a slew of issues, ive been replacing sensors and ill get into the whole thing


she took this thing to a shade-tree mechanic, ho informed her the motor was "no good" and she needed a "new motor" well this mechanic has told her this on 3 cars, and ive told her on all 3 it was bs, and i got tired of it.. i drove it, and could tell that by no means was the motor "no good"


initial scan brought 12 codes

bad maf, missfire on 2, 4, 6

random misfire

bank 1 rich

bank 1 knock detected

bank 1 knock sensors short circuit.

some others as well

soo.. what ive done


replaced maf, changed plugs, car runs phenominally better

car is still running rich as crap, bogging down under acceleration..

new scan, ... bank 1 o2 sensor bad, and the 2 knock sensors short circuit.

....


ive replaced the o2.... however... i can not find any reference as to whichis bank 1 and wich is bank 2, im a hyundai guy, ive done custom fabed turbo kits on hyundais, ive worked on diesels.. never toyota, im starting to think that me in my exahustion, replaced the sensor on bank 2..


is bank 1 toward the front, or the firewall??

btw the plugs, were in such bad shape, ...

front bank looked like it had been running really rich, while rear bank appears to have been running a bit lean


another issue i have is a belive the place she purchased the car took out the cel....

i can scan and get codes!!! but never a light to tip her off..


i used a bosh universal O2, as thats all they had in stock and i needed it driveable for her tonight

car drives, as long as you dont try to drive like andretti and floor board it..

please tell me i replaced the correct O2!! ill scan again tomorrow, i just couldnt take anymore..... i really do not want to replace those knock sensors, unless anyone here can tell me a better place to get them, as autozone wants 158$ each....

also coils, is there anywhere i can get a set of 6, instead of buying individual coils for 80+ each?


is there anything i am missing?? i can tell you that the car runs fine when theres no load .. as soon as you put a load on it... its like its dumping fuel and bogging down.... shall i look into replacing the ecu next??

i couldnt find all the info i wanted in searches.. and this is my first jaunt at working on a toyota...

i dont want to replace ALL the O2's as they want 70$ each for the universals and >100 for the oem's......

this guy was trying to charge her 1500$ to put "new motor" in, and it just pissed me off so much

ive also run some injector cleaner through the car as well.. was considering new injectors also



also after everything ive done, before testing, ive unhooked battery and stepped on brakes yada yada to remove residual voltage and reset ecu... unless there is some other way to do so in an avalon!...

[Goofaroo]

You didn't mention how many miles on this car. Have you done a compression test to verify the overall health of each cylinder?

[speck]

Originally Posted by Goofaroo

You didn't mention how many miles on this car. Have you done a compression test to verify the overall health of each cylinder?

190k+

comp test no... that would have been next step had the mis-fire not gone away with new plugs.. i kid you not, when i said these plugs look as if they were never changed since the car was new, there was nothing left of them..

ive rebuilt enough blown engines to know what to look for in that respect, and i dont deel theres anything internally wrong with this engine..

it appears to be entirely electronics related, as i got to thinking, im thinking i replaced the O2 sensor on bank2 instead of bank 1

its a possibility that the knock sensors will need to be replaced, as they are reporting a short

but im also wondering if the ecu has portions going out, ive seen a lexus give worse problems that some mechanics swore blown engine, and a few new sensors and an ecu solved it..

as it sits right now, the a/f is off, ive tuned enough modified cars to know what it feels like when a car is running too rich and boggs down, when you street tune a few heavily modified cars you get to know how they feel with too much fuel like crap.. hha

i can tell you that this thing is definetly dumping in too much fuel ive checked the plugs and O2's for oil and its not burning any oil.


its just annoying me that i feel like i changed the wrong O2, it did help! but its not the bloody one that was giving the code.....

im going to purchase a new O2, and change the other, and ill post here and let you know if that solves it..

just feel like an ass for changeing the wrong O2...

[bobflood]

Bank one is toward the firewall, bank 2 is toward the front of engine compartment.

[speck]

prognosis is more than likely dead ecu....


seems that way because things are working then not working, codes change ....

who can tell me without me doing too much rsearch where the ecu is, is it pass side, drv side, in cabin, under hood?

[speck]

ok, so heres the deal.. the cat was no good at all, clogged all to hell and falling apart..

ive got the exahust off, and the car runs a great deal better, however, its still running rich as all hell, i can hear there is not a single thing mechanically wrong with the motor.. but i can smell how rich it is...

so my question is has anyone experianced a problem with one of these things just decideing to dump fuel like crazy?

i had a lexus GS 300 with clogged cats that over heated, and the ecu being in the pass floor area, was screwed up by this, and it caused a slew of problems..

with that car, fixed the cats, tossed in an ecu from junk yard, and it fired right up and ran until my brother literally drove the brakes off of it, and had a wheel fall off................


has anyone had any issues with fpr?

[aznstylez]

Originally Posted by speck

ok, so heres the deal.. the cat was no good at all, clogged all to hell and falling apart..

ive got the exahust off, and the car runs a great deal better, however, its still running rich as all hell, i can hear there is not a single thing mechanically wrong with the motor.. but i can smell how rich it is...

so my question is has anyone experianced a problem with one of these things just decideing to dump fuel like crazy?

i had a lexus GS 300 with clogged cats that over heated, and the ecu being in the pass floor area, was screwed up by this, and it caused a slew of problems..

with that car, fixed the cats, tossed in an ecu from junk yard, and it fired right up and ran until my brother literally drove the brakes off of it, and had a wheel fall off................


has anyone had any issues with fpr?

I'm just guessing here but have you checked to see if you have a blown headgasket?

[avalonshoe]

whats the progress?

Looks like the car had nothing changed on it prior to you receiving it. ECU is behind the glove box which is wholly removable. Maybe it can be reflashed.


I wonder how long the engine has been running with bad O2's. That may have just killed the catalytic converter via running too rich. I ran my car with original plugs until 120k miles, and had minor compression leak on one plug.



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My car runs too lean which i'm afraid will start affecting the seals soon, but I've never had it running rich ever. Overall, with over 170k miles, i've only had 1 sensor going bad and only change the plugs once. I recommend you save all the old parts just in case it could be something else like the ECU you suspected. But if another O2 goes bad, I do recommend getting the Denso universal sensor which requires splicing of the wires and keeping your old O2 connectors for reuse.

[ChiTDI]

speck - as you've replaced sensors and exhaust items, have you scanned to determine what has been corrected?
The gas dumping could be coolant temp sensor or T-stat. Fuel pressure check would eliminate the issue from the fuel side. (Bad f.i. component)

[speck]

Originally Posted by ChiTDI

speck - as you've replaced sensors and exhaust items, have you scanned to determine what has been corrected?
The gas dumping could be coolant temp sensor or T-stat. Fuel pressure check would eliminate the issue from the fuel side. (Bad f.i. component)

ok, its got a brand new ecu, as toyota thought the ecu was bad, now, i have knock sensor 1 and 2 circuit malfunction.. and its still going into limp mode

im wondering if this car has ever been flooded, or if its been hit with lightning, ive heard of it but never seen it.. not on a car anyways, ive seen it on an airplane many times.. but not on a car

im so tired of chasing ghosts in this car

the codes in getting now are

bank 2 rich

knock sens 1 circuit malfunction

knock sens 2 circuit malfunction


as you remeber, it used to be bank 1 rich....

it runs good, until it goes into limp mode,

so im wondering if these knock sensors are bad, or if i have a bad harness on them,

in the process of removing intake manifolds to see.. but

like i said i feel like im chasing ghosts...

i fix o2's and maf, and find out bad ecu, i fix ecu, and find out bad knock sensors or bad circuit

i guess i shouldnt be suprised, as i was showing a rnadom shrt circuit on bank 1 knock sensor, and was "detecting" phantom knock

im just getting so fed up...


anyways thats the lack of progress!

im even wondering if the pre-cats are clogged but i dont want to go down that road... i dont have a welder anymore... so yea

[speck]

Blow by a lot of it, but good compression 200psi across all 6 cyls

Front head.. Took off front vc it's spotless inside

Looks like possibly a bad Pcv valve also

Here comes the lower Im off to see the shitty knock sensors yay

I hate this car

[speck]

Blow by a lot of it, but good compression 200psi across all 6 cyls

Front head.. Took off front vc it's spotless inside

Looks like possibly a bad Pcv valve also

Here comes the lower Im off to see the shitty knock sensors yay

I hate this car

[speck]

Someone rigged the knock sensor harness... They cut off both connectors on the wiring harness side (wiring harness and sensor harness) and rigged in a set of 4 wire connectors...

Then hooked 2 wires to 1 for each knock sensor, on both sides, and used electrical tape to make the connections.... Not even crimps.... Not to mention it never should have been do e in the first place...

It appears to have gotten wet, shorted out and fried the ecu, hence the need for the bee one...

I fear it may have shorted the knock sensors themselves...

However it might be wise to go ahead and replace them so I don't have to rip it apart again

I took pictures but no way to upload right now...


Suffice to say I was so angered ... If I ever found the person who did it I'd likely strangle them with the damn harness

[ChiTDI]

speck - 190k+ and spotless inside is a good combo.
Sorry to hear of the electrical maladies that you inherited. Everything now will bring doubt and irritation towards that "gentleman". Lightning and flood were interesting thoughts.
PCV was a historic issue with this engine, leading to sludge. It also has restricted drain back holes in the heads. I let the oil drain for an extended period and its amazing how much "extra" comes out and what shape its in.
Do good for the m-i-l, it makes for peace in many corners.

[ChiTDI]

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