wheel question

[limited05]

Will a 19x8.5 with a 33mm offset fit with no rubbing issues on a 2005 avy thanks in advance

[osidepunker]

Originally Posted by limited05

Will a 19x8.5 with a 33mm offset fit with no rubbing issues on a 2005 avy thanks in advance

Probably not. That offset will push the wheel out too far and it will probably rub the wheel well. 38mm is probably the most you should go.

[CassisPearl]

Originally Posted by limited05

Will a 19x8.5 with a 33mm offset fit with no rubbing issues on a 2005 avy thanks in advance

Yes, if you go with a 235mm or 245mm width tire. You could choose the 235mm width, if you're especially concerned about rubbing issues.

The actual recommendation is a minimum of 34mm offset, but one extra millimeter should not make any difference whatsoever. (There's more variation between brands of tires than that...)

Here's what we need to go by for a standard fitment:

Bolt Pattern: 5x114.3
Center Bore: 60.1
Hardware:12x1.50 Lug
Offset: 34-42mm

16 inch - 215/60-16
17 inch - 215/55-17, 225/55-17, 235/50-17
18 inch - 235/45-18, 245/45-18
19 inch - 235/40-19, 245/40-19
20 inch - 235/35-20, 245/35-20

Now, here's a theoretical fitment that I think should also work:
21 inch - 255/30-21 on a 21x8.5" rim with a 38mm offset.

I'm going with a 20x9.5" wheel with a 35mm offset and a tire size of 245/35-20, so you can see that with the right offset we do have some flexibility in tire/wheel combinations that work.

[osidepunker]

Originally Posted by CassisPearl

Yes, if you go with a 235mm or 245mm width tire. You could choose the 235mm width, if you're especially concerned about rubbing issues.

The actual recommendation is a minimum of 34mm offset, but one extra millimeter should not make any difference whatsoever. (There's more variation between brands of tires than that...)

Where did you get this recommendation from? I won't argue with the measurements you listed, but I will disagree with your interpretation and conclusions. You cannot apply a blanket range of offset to the different widths of wheel/tire combo's you listed. 34mm will not rub if you are running 215/55/17 and 42mm will not rub if you are running 245/35/20. There have already been complaints of rubbing the wheel wells with a 20"x8.5" / 38mm offset rim, running 245/35/20 tires. The brand of tire will make a difference also. You will have a little more clearance with a 19" rim, however, I am convinced a 33mm offset will rub. Your recommendation for a 21 inch rim will absolutely rub.

[CassisPearl]

Originally Posted by osidepunker

Where did you get this recommendation from? I won't argue with the measurements you listed, but I will disagree with your interpretation and conclusions. You cannot apply a blanket range of offset to the different widths of wheel/tire combo's you listed. 34mm will not rub if you are running 215/55/17 and 42mm will not rub if you are running 245/35/20. There have already been complaints of rubbing the wheel wells with a 20"x8.5" / 38mm offset rim, running 245/35/20 tires. The brand of tire will make a difference also. You will have a little more clearance with a 19" rim, however, I am convinced a 33mm offset will rub. Your recommendation for a 21 inch rim will absolutely rub.

First, the diameter of the rim makes no difference in determining whether there will be rubbing or not on either the inner or outer wheelwell. The only time that rim diameter affects fitment is in turning radius as a smaller diameter rim is more likely to make contact with the control arm than a larger diameter rim, for a given overall width.

Second, there's a basic rule that it is safe to extend tire and wheel width to a perpendicular, vertical plane extending off the outer edge of the outer wheelwell. Remember that the wheel travels inward as much as it travels upward in suspension travel, so the outer edge of the tread will clear safely.

As for the measurements, I got them off of two different websites:

www.streetdreams.org

www.discounttiredirect.com

Both of these retailers are reputable and guarantee these fitments work.

And, yes, a 245/35-20 tire will absolutely fit without any rubbing issues on a rim with up to a 9" width and within the range of 34 to 42mm offset. And this even takes into account, the variations in tire width by brand and style, even within the same stated size.

As for the 255/30-21 size, here's my thinking on this: We have a safe offset range of 42-34=8mm. Split the difference and we've got a 38mm offset. Add that 8mm twice to 245 and we get 261mm as a safe tire width. I'm fully confident that it'd work just fine, but I'd try it on my car first before recommending it to anyone else.

[osidepunker]

Originally Posted by CassisPearl

First, the diameter of the rim makes no difference in determining whether there will be rubbing or not on either the inner or outer wheelwell. The only time that rim diameter affects fitment is in turning radius as a smaller diameter rim is more likely to make contact with the control arm than a larger diameter rim, for a given overall width.

Of course it makes a difference when you go beyond the normal diameter of the stock wheel. If you go to a 20" rim, you are exceeding the diameter of the stock tire size. If you're not careful you will have rubbing. Why do you think there are so many issues when you go to a 22” rim size?

Originally Posted by CassisPearl

Second, there's a basic rule that it is safe to extend tire and wheel width to a perpendicular, vertical plane extending off the outer edge of the outer wheelwell. Remember that the wheel travels inward as much as it travels upward in suspension travel, so the outer edge of the tread will clear safely.

I agree to a certain extent, but it’s not a “basic” rule. Every car has different suspension geometry. Plus the front and rear travel in different angles. I stand by what I said, 245 on any size rim, will rub with a 38mm or less offset.

Originally Posted by CassisPearl

As for the measurements, I got them off of two different websites:
www.streetdreams.org
www.discounttiredirect.com
Both of these retailers are reputable and guarantee these fitments work.

I already said that I wouldn't argue with your measurements. Just your conclusions. Anybody can find accurate information on the internet. It takes somebody with intelligence and experience to interpret that information correctly.

Originally Posted by CassisPearl

And, yes, a 245/35-20 tire will absolutely fit without any rubbing issues on a rim with up to a 9" width and within the range of 34 to 42mm offset. And this even takes into account, the variations in tire width by brand and style, even within the same stated size.

Try that size with a 34mm offset and it WILL rub (forget, for second, that a 245 tire will look ridiculous on a rim wider than 8.5"). That is my opinion. We already have heard that a 38mm offset will rub under heavy loads (ex. 3 adults in the back seat or lots of heavy stuff in the trunk).

Originally Posted by CassisPearl

As for the 255/30-21 size, here's my thinking on this: We have a safe offset range of 42-34=8mm. Split the difference and we've got a 38mm offset. Add that 8mm twice to 245 and we get 261mm as a safe tire width. I'm fully confident that it'd work just fine, but I'd try it on my car first before recommending it to anyone else.

Your math is wrong on this one and I would have to draw you a picture to help you understand. I stand by my opinions. And if you want to try a 255 tire on ANY size rim, you would have to have the perfect offset. The margin for error would be just a couple mm.

[00avxls]

I have experience first hand that a 245/35/20 will rub on a 20 x 8.5 rim with +38 offset. As soon as I went down to a 235/35/20 tire all the rubbing went away. As far as the 22's that are on my car now, the only issue I have now is that it rubs in the front if I'm turning and hit a dip at the same time. I did have issues with rubbing in the back but after seeing where it was rubbing at I took a die grinder and cut out that part of the fender lip. I also think if I got the touring suspension it would eliminate the rubbing I have in the front. Oh yeah, I'm running a 235/30/22 tire on a 22 x 8 rim with +35 offset.

[CassisPearl]

Alright, let's put some real numbers to the issue of wheel diameter:

Stock tire = 26.4"
235/35-20 = 26.4"
245/35-20 = 26.7"
235/30-22 = 27.6"

We see that a 245/35-20 size tire is only .3" larger in diameter overall, which is easily within tolerance.

And that tolerance is the clearance all around the stock size tire to allow for DOT approved traction devices -- we're just using it to install wider and slightly larger performance tires...

However, we see that the 22" tire is fully 1.2" larger in diameter. It is no wonder that rubbing occurs with this size!

As for the issue of offsets, I have seen that a 20x8.5" wheel with a 34mm offset and 245/35-20 size tire fit our cars perfectly without any rubbing, regardless of load. A local Toyota dealership offers this setup as a dealer add-on where I live in the Phoenix area.

Practically, the entire product line from www.mhtwheels.com come in that particular size and offset to fit our cars. That includes the styles from Foose, Driv, DUB, Niche, Jesse James, etc.

I'll recheck my numbers on the 255/30-21 size fitment, but I can't see where I've gone wrong on that calculus. As I said, I'm not yet going to recommend it to someone else before I would try it myself.

I am still, however, going with a 20x9.5" Cattivo Design 730 wheel (35mm offset) with 245/35-20 size tires. I've always done extreme fitments because everything else just looks lame and not worth the time or cost.

[CassisPearl]

Originally Posted by 00avxls

I have experience first hand that a 245/35/20 will rub on a 20 x 8.5 rim with +38 offset. As soon as I went down to a 235/35/20 tire all the rubbing went away. As far as the 22's that are on my car now, the only issue I have now is that it rubs in the front if I'm turning and hit a dip at the same time. I did have issues with rubbing in the back but after seeing where it was rubbing at I took a die grinder and cut out that part of the fender lip. I also think if I got the touring suspension it would eliminate the rubbing I have in the front. Oh yeah, I'm running a 235/30/22 tire on a 22 x 8 rim with +35 offset.

Which exact brand and style of 20" wheel are we speaking of? It sounds like the offset was higher than 38mm. Where exactly did you see that rubbing was occurring?

You should never use a die grinder on the fender lip. There are actual tools available that are specially made to roll the fenderlip. You can even buy or rent them from www.tirerack.com or other wheel retailers. Cutting away at the metal weakens the structural integrity where it's needed most.

[00avxls]

I had a set of polo dominant wheels and they did have a +38 offset. I really didn't see where those were rubbing at with the 245/35/20's because it wouldn't really leave a mark or anything on the tire. They actually looked real good on the car and I probably should have kept them. In between those 20's and getting my 22's I had a set of 20" lexani amethyst wheels with some 255/35/20 tires on them and they didn't rub at all. I don't know what the offset was on them, but it had to be between +42- +45. I've been thinking of going back to 20's and if I do, there's a girl at work that has a pontiac grand am with some mossa mossaic wheels that are 20 x 9.5 that she's trying to sell. I can probably get them for $300-400, but they need new tires. She's running a 225/35/20 tire on them which to me is too small of a tire for that wide of a rim.

[osidepunker]

Originally Posted by CassisPearl

Alright, let's put some real numbers to the issue of wheel diameter:

Stock tire = 26.4"
235/35-20 = 26.4"
245/35-20 = 26.7"
235/30-22 = 27.6"

We see that a 245/35-20 size tire is only .3" larger in diameter overall, which is easily within tolerance.

And that tolerance is the clearance all around the stock size tire to allow for DOT approved traction devices -- we're just using it to install wider and slightly larger performance tires...

Again, you are using accurate information, but your logic is flawed. When Toyota determines overall wheel diameter tolerance for traction devices for the Avalon, they are assuming a 215/55/17 size. That tolerance goes out the window when you go to a wider tire. 245/35/20 might be only .3” larger in diameter, but because it is wider the acceptable range of offset shrinks. With that size, if you go more that +42mm, you might rub the rear strut. If you go less than +38mm (and depending on the tire, even +38mm might rub), you might rub the fenders.

Originally Posted by CassisPearl

As for the issue of offsets, I have seen that a 20x8.5" wheel with a 34mm offset and 245/35-20 size tire fit our cars perfectly without any rubbing, regardless of load. A local Toyota dealership offers this setup as a dealer add-on where I live in the Phoenix area.

A dealership would never offer than size with a 34mm offset. I would love to see some proof that 34mm in that wheel/tire size doesn’t rub.

Originally Posted by CassisPearl

Practically, the entire product line from www.mhtwheels.com come in that particular size and offset to fit our cars. That includes the styles from Foose, Driv, DUB, Niche, Jesse James, etc.

Where on that website do they recommend wheel sizes for our particular car? I couldn’t find any recommendations.

Originally Posted by CassisPearl

I'll recheck my numbers on the 255/30-21 size fitment, but I can't see where I've gone wrong on that calculus. As I said, I'm not yet going to recommend it to someone else before I would try it myself.

Your calculations are just plain wrong and I don’t feel like writing a whole paragraph just to prove it. Go ahead and try that size out and let us know how it fits.

[CassisPearl]

Originally Posted by osidepunker

Again, you are using accurate information, but your logic is flawed. When Toyota determines overall wheel diameter tolerance for traction devices for the Avalon, they are assuming a 215/55/17 size. That tolerance goes out the window when you go to a wider tire. 245/35/20 might be only .3” larger in diameter, but because it is wider the acceptable range of offset shrinks. With that size, if you go more that +42mm, you might rub the rear strut. If you go less than +38mm (and depending on the tire, even +38mm might rub), you might rub the fenders.

A dealership would never offer than size with a 34mm offset. I would love to see some proof that 34mm in that wheel/tire size doesn’t rub.


Where on that website do they recommend wheel sizes for our particular car? I couldn’t find any recommendations.


Your calculations are just plain wrong and I don’t feel like writing a whole paragraph just to prove it. Go ahead and try that size out and let us know how it fits.

My calculations are just plain wrong? How so?

That's twice now that you've made that accusation. I doubt it would take a whole paragraph to point out my errors, so, please do show us. I'm anxious to see where I've got it wrong.

And, I never claimed that anyone can or should put traction devices on a 245/35-20 size tire. I simply and clearly articulated that the extra space provided to accommodate traction devices, on a stock size tire, are what we make use of for wider and larger applications.

And since you refuse to believe me about the range of offsets and widths of tires that will safely fit, why don't you call the experts themselves?

Give the good folks at Street Dreams a call. Here's their number: 713-686-0532. And there's also Discount Tire Direct: 1-800-589-6789.

Did you also want me to provide a list of Toyota dealers in the Phoenix area to call? As for MHT Wheels, they'll give you a list of dealers in your area that you can call for more information on fitment issues.

I'll be waiting to hear back from you on what you found out. Please, do let us know...

[osidepunker]

Please re-read my previous posts. You are not paying attention to what I am saying. You're getting upset because you think I'm picking on you or something and you aren't listening to me. I never said that you were saying traction devices would fit on plus size wheels. I said that going to a wider wheel/tire combo would limit the range of offset. I don't need to call the "experts". I am capable of coming to my own conclusions.

Originally Posted by CassisPearl

Practically, the entire product line from www.mhtwheels.com come in that particular size and offset to fit our cars. That includes the styles from Foose, Driv, DUB, Niche, Jesse James, etc.

One more time. WHERE on this website do they give recommendations for a Gen 3 Toyota Avalon???

Look, I stand by my opinions and I will lay it out right here. If YOU feel like proving ME wrong, then please do. But please, try to use accurate logic.
These are the largest sizes that I believe will fit our cars without rubbing (without modification to the rear strut or fenders):

245/35/20, +40mm and +42mm (38mm might not rub depending on the brand of tire)
245/40/19, +38mm, +40mm, and +42mm
245/45/18, +38mm, +40mm, and +42mm
245/50/17, +38mm, +40mm, and +42mm

[CassisPearl]

Originally Posted by osidepunker

One more time. WHERE on this website do they give recommendations for a Gen 3 Toyota Avalon???

You'd need to give them a call. They're a great bunch of guys and I've talked to them several times, in person, when I was in Orange County last year. They'd also be more likely to refer you to a dealer who will then provide fitment information for the Gen III Avalon.

[CassisPearl]

Originally Posted by osidepunker

One more time. WHERE on this website do they give recommendations for a Gen 3 Toyota Avalon???

I did find the DUB Shoreline, fitted on a 2006 Toyota Camry, in a 20x8.5" with a 34mm offset and 245/35-20 size tires depicted on their website. I checked the details.

http://www.mhtwheels.com/default.cfm?brand=3&wheel=24

They look good.