Start a complaint case immediately, that way there will be a case history that can reduce your cost of this repair - due to the 5,000 or so miles over warranty.
Inform BBB.
Stuck sensors are really not that stuck, since sensor is bad, there are many ways a repair shop can get it out, and the dealer has those options.
__________________
2004 RX330 Sport
2003 Cam I4 XLE
2000 Cam XLE Gold Edition V6
1998 CamCE I4 Super Commuter!
Case is filed, and waiting for a call back. When you say - "Stuck sensors are really not that stuck, since sensor is bad, there are many ways a repair shop can get it out, and the dealer has those options". If Toyota won't budge on this, do you think I should consider having the mechanic pull the manifold, then remove the "stuck" sensor, and simply install a new one? The new design has the sensor in a different location. I suppose the worse thing that could happen would be another failure at another 40K miles?
KC
Well, I would have to say that I am (at least) somewhat impressed by Toyota's response time. I filed a case (with Jeffery), Jeffrey called my dealer's rep, and the dealer's rep called my dealer, in a matter of 2.5 hours. Dealer called to say that Toyota would "Like for me to participate in the cost". I said I didn't feel that I should have to, but sure, I will pay the $100.00 labor to have the new exhaust manifold and sensor installed. He hesitated, and then agreed to do that. I figure I probably should have had to pay for the sensor anyway, so not a bad deal (if it holds up). We will see. Now I get to drive 35 miles in snow, to return the loaner Camry, and pick up the Avalon, as they said it would not hurt anything to drive it. Will let you all know if the arrangement holds up as agreed!
Kellc1
You did very well if Toyota comes through with their share of the costs Others have had this problem.
Stuck means the sensor output signal is stuck lean, not the sensor itself being stuck in the manifold.
Apparently the redesigned replacement sensor requires a new manifold design, hence replacing the manifold.
Have seen after market sensors available, wonder if just replacing the sensors might do the trick. The dealer of course is bound to follow the TSB that requires the new sensors and manifold.
How would a guy know whether or not the whole thing is BS? Check engine lioght comes on, telling you that the sensor is "stuck". They tell me that it requires a whole new manifold. They could screw a new sensor into the old manifold, and charge a guy $1300.00, and you wouldn't know the difference! I was a bit surprised, when they told me that the labor is about $100.00. Really? On an Avalon, you can replace the exhaust manifold for $100.00 labor?
Kelly
The TSB outlines the "symptoms" based on what trouble code(s) comes up. The dealer should be able to double check if the sensor(s) has a problem via their test equipment.
The internet has posts about this problem/fix thus the dealer must be aware of the problem and/or dealt with it before.
It is not untypical for a dealer to try to push the costs of something like this onto the customer (TSB or other expensive problem occurring shortly after the warranty expires). Many customers may just grin and bare the costs rather then protest.
Would think once the dealer does the repairs someone familiar with engines should be able to determine if the manifold was replaced.
Guessing the dealer/Toyota is just trying to recoup some of their loss in the $100 figure. Toyota is certainly able to afford covering the complete expense but $100 is better then zero. There may also be something in the amount of money Toyota pays the dealer for warranty work. The time alloted for the job may be less and thus the reimbursement to the dealer.
I think I am going to mark the manifold somehow, then check it later. On another note - some may remember my post regarding my defective laser cruise control? Informed the dealer in May that the cruise wasn't working correctly. In his mind I think he was thinking it needed to be aligned. He said to just stop by sometime (I live 35 miles from the dealership). At that time, the car had 32K miles on it. Several attempts to stop in and have them look at it, were not successful. Either they were too busy, or the right guy wasn't available. I finally insisted on an appointment. Code told them to replace the laser unit. Guess what...........car now has 42K miles and is no longer under warranty for the laser replacement. Service manager did not file a customer issue (complaint/problem) with Toyota back when the problem started. How much is a laser unit you ask? $1200.00 of course! Again, Toyota did step up and cover it, because the service manager (Thanks Mike) remembered that the problem started months ago, when the car had to have less than 36K miles on it. Picked it up from that repair last night, and works as it should now. So, two terribly expensive repairs avoided. Is everything $1100.00+ to repair on an Avalon?
Our 06' avy had the manifold sensor issue come up at just 16k miles.
Our check engine light came on. I had a scan gauge installed on my honda pilot. I pulled the scanner and plugged it into the toyota and read the code. Went to google and typed in the code and the word "toyota" and it took me right to the service bulletin. When I called the dealer and told him what was about to happen under warranty he was shocked I had all the info.
Made me come in for a "reading" on their computer and 15 min's later announced that I had it all correct.
The install of the manifold took my dealership about 6 hours total. I don't think there is alot of room in the engine compartment to do the work. I was told I was lucky it was an Avalon and that if it was a Camry the engine (or tranny can't remember which) would have had to come out to give the tech enough room to do the job.
Anyhow no issues since the jobe was done. And FWIW I noticed that for the 2 weeks my manifold was on order and I was running around with the stuck sensor that my gas mileage was considerably worse. All my good mileage came back with the new parts installed.
This decade hopefully will introduce a new, more open Toyota. They have gotten so stingy and secretive with fixes and responsibility, that it's getting hard to trust them as I have for decades.
Case is filed, and waiting for a call back. When you say - "Stuck sensors are really not that stuck, since sensor is bad, there are many ways a repair shop can get it out, and the dealer has those options". If Toyota won't budge on this, do you think I should consider having the mechanic pull the manifold, then remove the "stuck" sensor, and simply install a new one? The new design has the sensor in a different location. I suppose the worse thing that could happen would be another failure at another 40K miles?
KC
Hi, I have the same issue.
So, what number did you call to file a case?
if it's the 1-800-331-4331 number, I can't get a human to answer.
Any help would be great.
thanks,
greg
I am sorry to say that I can not confirmt hat phone number. I may have it at home, but I am thinking not. The "stuck" sensor that I was referring to, was indeed stuck in the open position, not physically stuck in the manifold. Toyota did replace the manifold, and 2 or 3 sensors that are in the manifold. Total cost to me was $100.00 as agree upon. That said, I can tell you that you may need to be polite, but firm, that since Toyota has redesigned the manifold, it is obvious to you that this is a design issue, and of course that they are aware of it, and certainly should be covered by warranty. If not, then wasn't it their responsibility to do a recall and replace the part when it was changed? Thats what I used anyway. However, may come down to the Toyota service rep for your area, and (in my opinion) where he is at for the year in his budget to authorize questionable free-bees!
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