Second VVTi oil hose failure

[nmrickie]

I have a used 2005 Avalon with 65,000 miles. I posted earlier that, after a sudden VVTi oil hose leak, my engine was making a loud ticking noise at certain RPM's and needs $4300 worth of engine work to repair the lifters. So far Toyota was only willing to do the recall and not pay for the engine damage because it is 5,000 miles out of warranty.

A helpful customer relations representative at a Toyota dealer provided me with a vehicle history, and I was shocked to see that the VVTi hose had already been replaced at 33,000 miles after the same type of oil leak.

My battle with Toyota is still ongoing and, quite frankly, I expect to lose. I am going to get the car repaired and get rid of it (at considerable loss --I cannot in good conscious sell it or trade it knowing it has engine damage without disclosing it, though my dealer had no problem with it). I will never buy another Toyota after buying 5 new ones in the last decade. My love of Toyotas is over.

I am posting as a warning -- even though you may have had the oil line recall done, do not assume that you have nothing to worry about. If they replaced a rubber hose with another rubber hose as they did in mine, you have a ticking time bomb.

Sorry to cause anyone any anxiety, but I don't want this to happen to anyone else.

[grandpapa]

Originally Posted by nmrickie

I have a used 2005 Avalon with 65,000 miles. I posted earlier that, after a sudden VVTi oil hose leak, my engine was making a loud ticking noise at certain RPM's and needs $4300 worth of engine work to repair the lifters. So far Toyota was only willing to do the recall and not pay for the engine damage because it is 5,000 miles out of warranty.

A helpful customer relations representative at a Toyota dealer provided me with a vehicle history, and I was shocked to see that the VVTi hose had already been replaced at 33,000 miles after the same type of oil leak.

My battle with Toyota is still ongoing and, quite frankly, I expect to lose. I am going to get the car repaired and get rid of it (at considerable loss --I cannot in good conscious sell it or trade it knowing it has engine damage without disclosing it, though my dealer had no problem with it). I will never buy another Toyota after buying 5 new ones in the last decade. My love of Toyotas is over.

I am posting as a warning -- even though you may have had the oil line recall done, do not assume that you have nothing to worry about. If they replaced a rubber hose with another rubber hose as they did in mine, you have a ticking time bomb.

Sorry to cause anyone any anxiety, but I don't want this to happen to anyone else.

Can you provided us with more info? your car is 5K miles out from the power tran warranty and your car already have the VVTi oil link fixed once @ ~ 33K miles?

Most 3.5 does have ticking noise but you said loud noise so I am not sure what it is. Only at idle or goes with any RMP?

[alpha17c]

+1 provide more info....Was the hose replaced under the recall? If not they replaced it with the same problematic hose...Second that repair is covered also by a warranty. 1 year unlimited miles.
Did you return to the dealer that made the repairs? Better yet. Did a dealer replace the first hose?

[nmrickie]

Originally Posted by grandpapa

Can you provided us with more info? your car is 5K miles out from the power tran warranty and your car already have the VVTi oil link fixed once @ ~ 33K miles?

Most 3.5 does have ticking noise but you said loud noise so I am not sure what it is. Only at idle or goes with any RMP?

The VVTi hose was replaced @ 33k miles after a sudden oil leak, then again at 65k miles after another sudden oil leak, so the second replacement occurred out of warranty. The ticking noise started after the second replacement and occurs only when driving, during light acceleration. It cannot be recreated at idle. It is LOUD. A Toyota tech and an independent mechanic both said the lifters were bad (I did not tell the second mechanic about the first diagnosis).

[nmrickie]

Originally Posted by alpha17c

+1 provide more info....Was the hose replaced under the recall? If not they replaced it with the same problematic hose...Second that repair is covered also by a warranty. 1 year unlimited miles.
Did you return to the dealer that made the repairs? Better yet. Did a dealer replace the first hose?

The second hose was replaced under the recall and after the warranty expired. The first hose was replaced at 33k miles after an oil leak, but I did not own the vehicle then and don't know if it was just done under warranty or pursuant to the recall. The second repair occurred a little MORE than a year after the first one.

[Jason.MZW20]

For others: You may have to fight with the dealer on this one, but Toyota has a solid metal pipe for this VVT-i oil line yet they aren't using it for the TSB repairs. Give them these part numbers and have them install the solid metal oil pipe instead:

Part numbers:
15772-31030; metal oil line
90430-16012; crush washers

For you, the OP: You can use this as proof that Toyota has an even better improvement that they could have used to prevent the issue occurring a 2nd time.

[inov8]

I would not consent to the $4300 repair without further investigation by someone more knowledgeable. Both the "Toyota tech" and independent mechanic have low credibility in my book; one of them should have known the '05 Avalon engine doesn't have lifters. The cams contact rocker arms that in turn directly contact the valve stems.

However, there are hydraulic lash adjusters in the system that perform a similar noise control function to traditional lifters. But all 24 of them are unlikely to fail at once; more likely 1 or 2 at first, gradually getting worse with time. Furthermore, the valve train lash is not dependent on crankshaft loading; it should be just as noisy at idle, just with a lower "tick" frequency.

Perhaps you can reproduce the loud noise by lightly depressing the accelerator pedal in gear with the parking brake applied. Then someone could try to determine if the noise originates in one cylinder bank or both.

[nmrickie]

Thanks for all the input.

The noise originates in both cylinder banks, though it is much louder in one than the other (the one nearest the passenger compartment). I bought an automotive stethoscope and heard it myself. I can put the car in drive, push the brake pedal while slowly accelerating and duplicate the noise.

Actually, it was the service adviser who described the problem as "lifters," but the repair estimate calls for 24 "valve adjuster assemblies". I am hoping that, once the tear down starts, they would find that not all 24 need to be replaced (at $81.48 a pop). The tech did say this was possible, but I'm pretty much at their mercy.

[grandpapa]

so what's the status on the car right now?

not driving? at home? at the dealer?
I assume you already got to toyota.com/owners and added the VIN to see the service record? If the service is up to date, it doesn't really matter you are the 1st owner or not.
You may want to go to other dealership for more advice.

[nmrickie]

Originally Posted by grandpapa

so what's the status on the car right now?

not driving? at home? at the dealer?
I assume you already got to toyota.com/owners and added the VIN to see the service record? If the service is up to date, it doesn't really matter you are the 1st owner or not.
You may want to go to other dealership for more advice.

I'm not driving it right now and it's sitting at home until my appointment to get it fixed on Feb 1st. I'm still waiting to hear from Toyota about whether or not it will pay, but either way I have to get it done.

[zythr]

Originally Posted by nmrickie

I'm not driving it right now and it's sitting at home until my appointment to get it fixed on Feb 1st. I'm still waiting to hear from Toyota about whether or not it will pay, but either way I have to get it done.

You may be stuck, since you're not the original owner of the car. Unless the work had a transfer to another owner, Toyota is under no obligation to help, This could have been why the original owner sold the car, when this problem appeared for him/her and the dealer wanted to unload this car. Maybe if Toyota is concerned about losing a customer they may help, Hopefully this will work to your advantage.

[grandpapa]

Originally Posted by zythr

You may be stuck, since you're not the original owner of the car. Unless the work had a transfer to another owner, Toyota is under no obligation to help, This could have been why the original owner sold the car, when this problem appeared for him/her and the dealer wanted to unload this car. Maybe if Toyota is concerned about losing a customer they may help, Hopefully this will work to your advantage.

I kind of disagree. I don't really see why not being the original owner would translate to that. (unless the car is from other areas?)

I do believe there are some impact on where the car has been served. If the car has been serviced by TOYOTA, there should be records online under toyota/owner (hopefully) and there should be a work order on the VVTI line.

I hope he will get a solution soon.

[arabianobsession]

Originally Posted by zythr

You may be stuck, since you're not the original owner of the car. Unless the work had a transfer to another owner, Toyota is under no obligation to help, This could have been why the original owner sold the car, when this problem appeared for him/her and the dealer wanted to unload this car. Maybe if Toyota is concerned about losing a customer they may help, Hopefully this will work to your advantage.

If he bought it certified and the dealer "unloaded" this car and decided not to mess with the VVTi hose, then it's their problem for being cheap in the first place. This is why some people buy their cars from dealerships, under the pretense that everything that needed attention was taken care of, or if it wasn't, disclosed in the Used Car Buyer's Guide on the windshield.

[zythr]

Originally Posted by grandpapa

I kind of disagree. I don't really see why not being the original owner would translate to that. (unless the car is from other areas?)

I do believe there are some impact on where the car has been served. If the car has been serviced by TOYOTA, there should be records online under toyota/owner (hopefully) and there should be a work order on the VVTI line.

I hope he will get a solution soon.

Originally Posted by arabianobsession

If he bought it certified and the dealer "unloaded" this car and decided not to mess with the VVTi hose, then it's their problem for being cheap in the first place. This is why some people buy their cars from dealerships, under the pretense that everything that needed attention was taken care of, or if it wasn't, disclosed in the Used Car Buyer's Guide on the windshield.

Hopefully it does work out for the OP.

[Paul3637]

Your situation is just one more case of abysmal and inconsistent treatment by Toyota dealers. Go to this site:

http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/

You will see that many dealers have replaced/repaired engines post warranty with this exact issue.

Follow all the relevant links for followup. There is no consistency amongst Toyota dealers.

I am the author of that website. Although the website itself works fine, I tried to update it today but the google site editor feature will not load so I cannot update it. This is a common problem with google sites.

Remember ....... 1.6 million vehicles were recalled over this. Please keep us posted.