unable to start - now check engine and vcs light

[ciara belle]

today i accidentally aborted a start on the engine (i wasn't thinking - and removed my foot from the brake as i was starting - since i really only wanted accessories (parked waiting for someone). of course, it didn't start... but then it wouldn't start after that... the brakes locked up (couldn't press it in), the stick shift locked up (couldn't take it from park and back to reset it -- even though i was pressing on brake as much as possible).... every time i attempted i got all the lights - in weird orders... even one attempt the windshield wipers started extremely slow (they were off). after several min (about 10) of trying everything i could think of while on hold for a road side tech (never got one - gonna call and complain about that complete lack of usefulness), it finally let me press the break in - but still no start, i cycled from park to drive (off), nope still not starting. held the key fob to the ignition button for 30 secs - no response. held the ignition down for 30 secs (trying to reboot the computer) no change. finally, the ignition started clicking - yay that's something... but still no start -- the battery had been completely drained!! crazy! so a limo driver stopped and boosted our car (i was waiting in cell parking at the airport). after it finally started now i have a check engine light (that's a lot of help), and a vsc light (its dry and we were not using vsc)

any ideas why it refused to start?? when i got home - we turned it off and restarted no problem - but those lights remain -- so i have an appt at toyota tomorrow - but i would like to know b4 hand what i might be up against.

my husband says he saw all the lights were on -- granted i forgot to turn them off when i was troubleshooting but i know they were off while i was just waiting (b4 the attempt to start).

i can't imagine the engineers didn't think that someone may accidentally take their foot off the brake during starting

this is an avalon 08 ltd - w/ keyless start @ approx 53k

the battery & cables are corroded - but other than that its been acting normally (i attempted to get new cables and batteries but was promptly told my 'factory extended' warranty did not extend to the whole vehicle - and i would be out of pocket several hundred for a simple battery and cable - i don't think that the battery cable/battery should corrode like that so early in the life of the car and that its clearly a mfr'ing defect)...we had cleaned it manually and put an anti corrosion washer on the positive cable connection.

thanks
ciara

[TrailDust]

I agree, the battery and cables shouldn't be that corroded after only three years. I'd call around to other dealerships regarding the warranty work. When you do take your Avalon in I'll be interested to see what codes they pull.

[ciara belle]

i reported it just outside orig warranty (3 yr) - my local dealers are NOT helpful,nor was the 800# or extended service #. in fact they once tried to charge me 300 to repair a clip on the wood trim in the back seat (where NO one sits) - i had to go up to ombudsman level to get them to do the 5 (FIVE) min repair for free.

the same w/ the brakes -- i called them and they informed me - no prob - the brakes have a 40k warranty - so being that i am super busy, the car is a main vehicle to get back and forth to work - AND they are 45 min away i brought it in a few months later -- to be told that i was incorrectly informed and it was 36 k for the brakes (i was at 39k)... they had worn ridiculous down for a car that age - neither my husband or myself are not aggressive drivers - they refused to fix them under warranty and quoted me nearly 900 for the new pads and rotors on the front.. i told them to take a hike (as they were double and TRIPle local shops) and took it to ford for lifetime brakes at 183 (toyota's weren't lifetime even). (i was at 35k when i originally called - had i been properly informed by the person i talked to i would have taken it in next day)

the thing that annoys me most is that they're the ones that inspect the vehicle every year AND do every oil change and maint scheduled - so they should have seen the battery corrosion WAY before i did if they were doing their job.. but they just do the minimum and don't even give me a report at the end of inspections etc. I have brought up that complaint SEVERAL times - that the POINT of having inspections is to get FEEDback on what might be needed and discover issues B4 they become huge dollar fixes. never have i been given an inspection report - or even feedback on my invoice of what was done when got something fixed. ford on the other hand (whom i don't own any vehicles from) gives me that w/o asking for just bringing it in for oil change.

i am taking it to a new dealer tomorrow - but extended warranty department have already told me i am sol for the battery. an example my current dealers service? when i said i had a check engine, and vsc light AND couldn't start w/o a boost -- AND they know i have to drive 45 to get there - they asked if i was dropping it off??? (and what walk home??) and would not give me an appointment unless i agreed that i had to wait double to triple the time of drop offs (and no 'wait appts' for 2 wks -- wow thanks for helping me in my time of need).
(btw their shuttle would not take me home - too far). (i live in the country - all the dealers are over 45 min away from me-but i bought the car from them).

I have already put in a complaint about the extended warranty being false advertised to me as a complete bumper to bumper (same as factory) warranty -- i find out after the fact that it's NOT even close (in canada it is the same as factory pretty much).

(btw we would have replaced the battery and cables ourselves but the cable has welded itself to the battery and we cannot get either out).
sigh
ciara

[MAToyotaSales]

Wow, seems like you have a few legit issues mixed in with some stuff that's not ever covered by a warranty. Batteries, brakes, tires, wipers, light bulbs and many other things are considered "consumables" by all manufactures. These items are covered by a very short warranty if at all. Doesn't matter which vehicle you buy, nobody covers brake pads (not even in the 36k unless youve got a pre paid maintenence plan) except on a case by case basis of goodwill or if there is a class action suit (See Honda). 39 thousand miles is average for brake pads, not even close to rediculous.


I'd suggest finding a new dealer since it seems you are quite unhappy with the closest one. Some will give you a loaner car for the day so you don't have to wait.

Impossible to say for sure, but I'd be willing to bet the main issue you are having doesn't have to do with the aborted start. Ive done that a thousand times with no issues. It would make sense if the battery cables are bad and causing this issue.

[inov8]

Everything you described in the original post is symptomatic of a discharged battery or poor connection / corroded battery terminals or cables. I've experienced all of them after the "auto-turn-off" headlights forgot to turn off .

I have an '05 and have also noticed the rate of battery terminal corrosion buildup is worse than any other car I have owned. I clean it off with baking soda every year. This is usually caused by overcharging (which is an alternator problem).

The factory negative cable lists for $15 and you can buy it online from a dealer for ~$10. The positive terminal ass'y lists for $26.41 and you can buy it for $20. So we are not talking about a big expense here. Two or three companies make all of the auto batteries sold in the USA, so just go to Sears or WalMart and by the biggest one that will fit in the tray . . . should be less than $100. You could even offer the installer $50 to replace your terminals while he/she is at it. The welded-on terminal can stay attached to the old battery.

As MAToyotaSales suggested, it is probably a coincidence this all happened during an aborted start (though I admit I've never actually tried it myself, and are not inclined to).

[ciara belle]

i should be specific - it wasn't the brake pads at fault - the rotors wore down. all 4 other shops i called felt that toyota should have been fixing at least the rotors under warranty. i have owned 3 toyota's and none have had these issues.

re battery cable -- i had planed to just take it to a reputable shop to get the cables / battery replaced (or have the hubby do that - but he states he cannot get the battery out due to the corrosion (and he is NOT a mechanic lol) and none of my auto parts shops carried the cables (not even online)... but now that i have all these engine code errors on the dash i can't.

i called my old dealer yesterday to look up their original quote to replace both battery and cable - yup typical - its not in their system and they can't find it. was told that the service tech would call me back - still waiting.
i believe they wanted over 80 for the cables (both they insisted needed to be done), and more than double what i could buy a battery for (and i am talking an anti-corrosion better battery than the original).

Heck, my 4runner had a panasonic anti-run down battery that was truly awesome. sigh.
(or maybe it was my highlander). it reserved the battery by auto shutting off anything draining it so that you had still enough to start the vehicle.

re the 'warranty' == as i said i am More miffed that my dealer never once noticed or did a proper inspection as they stated they were doing - cause surely it doesn't just weld over - over night - especially when i am in fairly even climate (va). its clear they either deliberately ignore items so that it costs customers more out of warranty or are incapable of doing their jobs. i have no idea how they got such a high rating w/ toyota.

ciara

[ciara belle]

well.. i started it this morning - started fine -- same error lights - vsc and check engine. i took it to put some fuel in - since it was close to empty (we didn't want to chance filling it up after it was just boosted in case we couldn't get it started again). so i go to shut it off at the gas stn -- and being that i am all flustered and worried it won't start (stupid i know)...i forget to put it in park - but before i even remove my foot from the brake i realize it an put it in to park - ... at a few bucks of fuel... start it up -- damn lights are gone.

took it in - full 1 hr diagnostic. no codes found - no errors found... alternator tested - fine - battery tested - fine.. no suggestion to replace terms... and they reset all the codes just in case. the explained that if it was run down (battery) and it failed to start the computer would lock it down and not allow it to even try until it had enough current to do so - something called a vti i guess - and i kept re-tripping that setting over and over every time i tried.

asked for a estimate to replace both terms (not cable, not battery - just ends) 152... !! even the service guy exclaimed to the parts guy 'they cost WHAT??" "for that little part???" when he went over to get the actual price (he gave me a verbal of 90 for both - and i asked for written - where-upon he discovered that his estimate of the '10' part was way off base. he couldn't believe they were 27 for each end.
(same guy told me my choice of battery (optima) that i would replace with was not as good as toyota's (ya - the one that's corroding all over my engine??)

autozone refused to work on it - stating they don't have actual mechanics. i refused to pay toyota pricing -- and so i am calling around to a few other mechanics here for them to replace these term ends.... i have yet to find them on line... and my husband was able to remove them by hand anyways.

so -- the ending is - there's nothing wrong with it... sigh

ciara

[inov8]

You can find the battery terminals/cables at toyota-parts.com. That's where the prices I posted came from. I found them in less than 3 minutes. It is the parts department of a dealer in Texas that sells factory parts over the internet at a discount. Perhaps your friendly local dealer has a yacht payment due and doesn't think you are resourceful enough to look up the actual cost of the parts. The business about detecting a weak battery and locking out a start sound like a dream to me. My Limited tries to start even when the battery is nearly dead. Push the button and the interior lights dim, the radio stops playing, a bunch of relays chatter, various warning lights come on, but the starter motor just groans. Jump the battery, and all is good again.

Evidently the error codes self-cleared after a few driving cycles. Same thing happened to me after one of the many failures of the auto-headlights to work properly.

Autozone just sells parts; they don't have service bays. A salesperson will come out and read your code in the parking lot because, if the code indicates a faulty part, they hope to sell you a replacement.