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"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:NcSdnaeEmp37jAbYnZ2dnUVZ_tCtnZ2d@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message news:db1f5[color=green]
>> No offence, but if Toyota recommends 5W-30, I would follow Toyota's
>> recommendation over the recommendation of anyone else. Toyota is fairly
>> knowledgeable about the vehicles they build ;-)[/color]
>
> You have your opinion, and I have mine. If one waits until 75,000 miles
> before switching from conventional oil to synthetic, I would not use 5W-30
> synthetic because it is likely to slip past the worn rings. But an engine
> that has been running 5W-30 synthetic since relatively low mileage will
> not have enough engine wear for this to be a problem until extremely high
> mileage occurs.[/color]

That is not my opinion. That is the opinion of the folks who designed and
built the car. Conventional wisdom used to be that it was better to switch
to a heavier viscosity oil as the engine wore, or that thicker oil was
better than thinner oil. The lower number in a multi-viscosity oil
represents the viscosity when the engine is cold, such as startup, and 5W-30
will flow better at startup than 10W-30, so it will provide lubrication to
the engine's moving parts more quickly than 10W-30 will. If you are worried
about oil getting past the rings, then it is better to use 5W-40 than
10W-30.
[color=blue]
> You know, I find it amazing that you would make such a big deal about
> %W-30, since you regularly ridicule anyone who doesn't get their oil
> changed by a Toyota dealer. Anyone familiar with dealer operations (Toyota
> or otherwise) would know that at least 75% of them will use 10W-30 oil by
> default (since it is cheaper for them to stock only one viscosity of oil
> in drums).[/color]

I have never ridiculed anyone who doesn't get their oil changed by a dealer.
What I've said is that I am not impressed with quick lube places, and dealer
oil changes are not as high-priced as people think they are. There are
plenty of independent shops that provide good service, and if one does not
wish to use the dealer, IMO, an independent shop is a better option than a
quick lube place, or you can specify which oil viscosity you want the dealer
or whoever to install.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> The receipts for the oil and filter, along with the date and odometer
>> reading are necessary. A signature by the owner and receipts for the oil
>> pan, filter wrench, jack, etc. are useless.[/color]
>
> Really? I didn't know that your were an expert in civil lawsuits and legal
> evidence. What the dealer needs is irrelevant. What a judge needs (or
> would like to see) is ultimately what matters.[/color]

I am not an expert in civil lawsuits and legal evidence, but from my time as
a district service manager, I am familiar with Toyota's warranty policies
and procedures and what Toyota requires for warranty coverage. The warranty
P&P has to be followed if the dealer wishes to be reimbursed for warranty
repairs, and it does not state anywhere that signatures on receipts are
required or that receipts for jacks, oil pans, etc. are required or should
be considered as mitigating circumstances.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Using Mobil 1 for oil changes does not improve or diminish the chances
>> that Toyota will approve or deny warranty coverage for an engine repair,
>> and saying that you use Mobil 1 will not impress the district service
>> manager (unless the DSM is new and doesn't know anything about cars).
>> Changing the oil yourself does not diminish the chances that you will get
>> warranty coverage on a defect. Toyota can deny a warranty claim for
>> plenty of reasons other than the lack of adequate oil changes, although
>> that is the most common reason that engines fail. Toyota will not deny
>> warranty coverage for defects in material or workmanship but they not
>> cover lack of proper maintenance, failure or damage caused by non-Toyota
>> parts, abuse, or modifications that cause a failure.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O[/color]
>
> If the dealer has a wild ass suspicion (but has no real evidence) that a
> warranty problem is caused by lack of oil regular oil changes, letting him
> know that Mobil 1 was used on a regular basis, and that receipts are
> available, might just save everyone a lot of time barking up the wrong
> tree. It is true that a service manager should not jump to wild
> conclusions, but service mangers are human and some of them are
> incompetent and some are assholes. A Toyota district service manager (as
> opposed to the dealer service manager) is likely to be better, but if you
> have to talk to a DSM then an attempt has already been made by the dealer
> to intimidate the consumer.
>[/color]

The only requirement for motor oil is that the viscosity specified by the
manufacturer is used, that the oil bears the proper API rating, and that the
oil and oil filter are changed according to the manufacturer's maintenance
schedule. I am not saying that Mobil 1 is bad, but for warranty coverage
purposes, it will not help or hurt.
[color=blue]
> Changing the oil yourself does not diminish the chances that you will get
> warranty coverage because we are not talking about the odds of a poker
> hand. I clearly said that it is OK for warranty purposes to do the oil
> change yourself and document it, but the definition of proper
> documentation is invariably subject to interpretation, and the more doc
> you have, the better off you will be.[/color]
[color=blue]
> I have often changed the oil on my 98 V6 Camry XLE myself (Mobil 1 5W-30
> since 5K miles). I have no hesitation recommending that others who can
> change it themselves also do so.[/color]

The definition of proper documentation may be subject to interpretation on
the part of owners, but the requirements listed in the owner's manual and
warranty guide are all that you need.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)