read moto's post in the "fun talk" section of club4ag. its called "for those considering an engine swap".
a great piece of advice for anyone planning to swap.
but to answer your questions off the bat: if you have very little knowledge of mechanics or have never really had any hands on engine, wiring or tuning experience, i'd suggest forgoing your 20v swap.
as moto has sated so eloquently, if you can't understand wiring diagrams and cooling systems, you will find yourself immersed with frustration and a pile of impropper functioning car parts.
because the 20v shares very little in common with its 16v predecessor, you are going to have to understand, diagnose and problem solve wiring sensors and relays, piping your cooling system and customizing your ignition. yes, in most cases, this means cutting a hole in the firewall to accomodate the distributor. seems simple right? but how are you going to adjust timing now?
same with your cooling system. seems simple enough to lay some pipes right? but is it flowing efficiently and evenly? if not, you could end up with oddly bored cylinder or a warped head in due time.
do you know how to read wiring schematics and how to make a 20v ecu and harness work in conjunction with existing ae86 parts like the fuel pump, tailights, headlights, gauge cluster and so on?
because the 20v was never meant to go into a rwd application, its not a simple plug and play swap. i insist, do some reading on club4ag and it may help you a bit. A good understanding of wiring diagrams and advanced mechincs will be an asset also. don't think of this or motos advice as a deterent...rather think it of words of wisdom.
Couldent he just get a mechanic to do it? Thoe I'd imagine that the cost excluding the engine would be over a $1k. Or would it?
My cousin had the option to swap (to a bigger engine) or rebuild a short while ago. They were both going to cost around $2,000. Thoe the car this was being done on was a 1972 AMC Javlin.
you're probably better off getting someone to do the swap for you.. like I've said before.. I got quoted $2100 plus taxes at lucky star i think.. for a silvertop 20v and 5speed manual transmission... not sure what an automatic would cost.. or even if they made them.
are you sure they will do the swap for only $2100+tax
did they have any experience doing this before?
becoz it's not a easy sway ,
I think the harness have to be re-wiring
again, moto addressed this issue also, which is why i urge you to read it prior to sinking your money into anything.
most certified mechanics will not attempt to sawp any engine thats not native to that vehicle for many reasons. one being, is that they simply DO NOT have the experience of doing such swaps. the second being as a result, its not worth taking on the responsibility in doing such a task which could ultimately end up in their lap if the sh!t hits the fan.
You have to remember, doing such swaps transcends beyond a general "mechanics" knowledge. this is a job more suited for a custom tuner who has experience in that particular field. however, in the tuner industry you get waht you pay for. and most reliable and reputable tuners charge by the hour which will make a heavy dent in your wallet.
I can't imagine a 20v swap in an ae86 being any less than $3000 for labour. there's a lot invovled as many things need to be custom fabricated.
the last time i checked, a 20v motor was selling for app.$2000 without the harness, map sensor, oxygen sensor, or ecu.
again, moto addressed this issue also, which is why i urge you to read it prior to sinking your money into anything.
most certified mechanics will not attempt to sawp any engine thats not native to that vehicle for many reasons. one being, is that they simply DO NOT have the experience of doing such swaps. the second being as a result, its not worth taking on the responsibility in doing such a task which could ultimately end up in their lap if the sh!t hits the fan.
You have to remember, doing such swaps transcends beyond a general "mechanics" knowledge. this is a job more suited for a custom tuner who has experience in that particular field. however, in the tuner industry you get waht you pay for. and most reliable and reputable tuners charge by the hour which will make a heavy dent in your wallet.
I can't imagine a 20v swap in an ae86 being any less than $3000 for labour. there's a lot invovled as many things need to be custom fabricated.
the last time i checked, a 20v motor was selling for app.$2000 without the harness, map sensor, oxygen sensor, or ecu.
nick
You're right.. for an AE86 it would probably cost a lot more, considering that the RWD transmission would have to be fitted to the FWD engine, plus rewiring of the ECU, etc.. the price I was given was for an AE92, and it being a FWD car, the swap is much easier to do, specially if the engine itself comes from a japanese AE92.. all you would have to really do is get the ECU and wiring done, which are of course different from US spec AE92's, everything else should be straight forward.
Remember AE92's in japan came with the 16V 4AGE, the 20V 4AGE and the SC 4AGZE, depending on the year.
P.S. I forget which place gave me the $2100 price for the 20V, it was either Japanese Auto in scarboro, Lucky Star in Etobicoke, or Japan Auto parts in Etobicoke, all I remember was that I called all 3 places the same day. I do however remember going to Japanese auto parts in scarboro in the summer time to look for a rad for my buddy's accord, and the guy told me he had a few silvertops a couple of months before, but he had sold all of them, but he could get more if I was interested. However there was like 10 other ppl trying to buy parts from him, so I did not ask for a price. I'll have to go back and check again.
P.S. I forget which place gave me the $2100 price for the 20V, it was either Japanese Auto in scarboro, Lucky Star in Etobicoke, or Japan Auto parts in Etobicoke, all I remember was that I called all 3 places the same day.
Japan Auto parts has one for $2300....and Lucky Star has 4AGZE for $1400....
but check whether or not they have the intake and exhaust manifold, the air box, oxygen sensor, map sensor, ecu and an uncut or untampered harness. without any of those, you're essentially f*cked.
sure alot of people have done this before. mike (comes out to lapping days) has a 20v in his starlet. Applewood auto is pretty versed in doing those swaps also. practically everyone on club4ag has a 20v ae86. so there's tonnes of resources....just do your research.
if you want to put a number on the swap, i would say $1500 - $2000 for the engine and at least $2000 + for the labour.
water lines, firewall, distributor mounting, and wiring all need to be custom fabricated or custom mounted.
oh and you can't get the sparkplugs for the 20v in north america...you have to use them off some other vehicle which i forgot.
This swap my friend was quoted close to $5000 that was including motor and everything custom needed. I think for $5000 it is not worth it for 160hp and next to no torque just like the Honda B16. If I were you I'd rather use that money to build a 4AGTE instead and it will be more fun to drive afterwards when it's finished. BTW I hear from a friend that those silvertop 20V put out more like 145-150hp flywheel on the dyno compared to the 160 claimed, oh well.
This swap my friend was quoted close to $5000 that was including motor and everything custom needed. I think for $5000 it is not worth it for 160hp and next to no torque just like the Honda B16. If I were you I'd rather use that money to build a 4AGTE instead and it will be more fun to drive afterwards when it's finished. BTW I hear from a friend that those silvertop 20V put out more like 145-150hp flywheel on the dyno compared to the 160 claimed, oh well.
then again a B16 from an SiR or a Del sol with 160hp will cost about $3000 to $5000 for the engine alone.. then you have to get it installed
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