Stick shift and braking - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

***silver04rollas*** · 03-19-2006, 01:11 AM

Hmmm..all of a sudden I have been perplexed by a buddy of mine (he drives a 1993 Accord EX-R 5 speed manual, which I guess has no synchros in the gear box). My habbit of braking with the clutch in as I approach a traffic light made him tell me that it is bad for the clutch pressure plate to press the clutch as you are approaching a halt. Rather, I should only have the brake pedal in press the clutch to progressively downshift as the speed reduces. The only time I use engine braking with rev match to downshift is while doing hard cornering and keeping revs high on empty windy roads. What my friend tells me seems like a lot of work in city traffic.

I asked a Toyota tech and he told me that it would not hurt the pressure plate to press the clutch while braking to stop while my friend tells me that the techs he talked to told him that it is bad for pressure plate.

What are your thoughts? Am I really taxing my pressure plate? Feel free to comment on it.

ToyotaMan1281 · 03-19-2006, 02:31 AM

clutch to shift and right before u stop so u dont stall the car, keep in gear as long as u can to slow down and less brake use, only use brakes if u really have too

I went 50-60K miles on my old neon 5 speed- one clutch and drove it hard too lol
Its a corolla clutch will last a long time

all I can think of. ANyone else have thoughts

freakinbox · 03-19-2006, 03:14 AM

hell for the price of the tranny's on the older toyotas it's not really that big of a deal...
Breaking with the clutch? sounds like your bringing it up slowly, that sounds like it would be bad on the clutch. I suggest downshifting it fully. I don't apply breaks until I am doing about 40 km/h

karazy · 03-19-2006, 04:46 AM

I am also a downshifter. I have not had to replace a clutch or gear box in my 30 years of driving. Having said that, I don't see how the plate is going to get hurt when it is disengaged. Your method is definitely harder on the brakes. If you have to replace pads and rotors every other year, it doesn't take long to add up.

freakinbox · 03-19-2006, 01:35 PM

I suggest doing rev matching. Alot easier on the clutch

. When I started with standard on that car I didn't, I would just bring the clutch up after putting it in the lower gear :s

***silver04rollas*** · 03-19-2006, 02:36 PM

Thanks for the good suggestion guys. Dunno, but I have read using engine braking all the time causes more engine wear and tear and that brakes are meant for decceleration on the car while the engine makes it move forward. That is why while approaching a traffic signal or something, I fully press the clutch, start braking gradually, pull the gear out of the stick and put into 2nd gear. Once I get below 20 KM or so, I rev match and put it in first and then let go of the clutch. My XRS so far has 20,000 KM and it is working great so far. I guess, I will talk a few other mechanics and see what they say.

freakinbox · 03-19-2006, 03:55 PM

I don't go as far as to downshift into first to slow down. I just go to 2nd

***silver04rollas*** · 03-19-2006, 05:16 PM

Yes that is right. When slowing down for traffic, I would much rather just use the brakes and downshift to the correct gear. My measure to gauge it is by looking if the traffic up ahead is moving. If it is coasting slowly, I would slow down, downshift, rev match and let off the clutch. If the traffic seems to be coming to a halt, I would bring the speed down below 20 KM/H (around 12 mph or so) and then downshift, rev match, let go of the clutch. Seems to work so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakinbox

I don't go as far as to downshift into first to slow down. I just go to 2nd

***REN69*** · 03-19-2006, 07:11 PM

It's called Engine braking, I do it all the time and I don't think its that bad for your car. I used to downshift right down to second gear, never to first as its too low for the transmission. I have done it to first but revmatching and you have to revmatch it so high otherwise you hear *CRUNCH* from the synchros.

***silver04rollas*** · 03-19-2006, 07:52 PM

Well, the XRS has no synchro in first gear. Therefore, it would not let you downshift above 20 KM/H to first without double clutching anyway. The lock in first gear is release around at 15 - 17 KM/H. If one rev matches and downshifts to 1st at around 15 KM/H, the revs are low. Dunno, but I personally like to use brakes as much as I can in everyday driving and engine braking only when I am pushing it all the way to 8400 rpm and have to take a corner at high speeds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by REN69

It's called Engine braking, I do it all the time and I don't think its that bad for your car. I used to downshift right down to second gear, never to first as its too low for the transmission. I have done it to first but revmatching and you have to revmatch it so high otherwise you hear *CRUNCH* from the synchros.

epyon22 · 03-19-2006, 10:18 PM

lol i would think you would be putting more wear on any thing by down shifting though its not a bad thing to do. if it was a bad thing to hold the clutch in then i would think pressure plates would go out alot quicker if you sat in traffic. pushing and holding the clutch is a normal thing to do and if holding it in is bad for it then somthings not right in the design of the car. but yeah downshifting is good for when your not compleatly stopping and using the brakes is good for compleatly stopping

***silver04rollas*** · 03-19-2006, 10:32 PM

Werd. You nailed it right on the head. My thoughts exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by epyon22

lol i would think you would be putting more wear on any thing by down shifting though its not a bad thing to do. if it was a bad thing to hold the clutch in then i would think pressure plates would go out alot quicker if you sat in traffic. pushing and holding the clutch is a normal thing to do and if holding it in is bad for it then somthings not right in the design of the car. but yeah downshifting is good for when your not compleatly stopping and using the brakes is good for compleatly stopping

freakinbox · 03-19-2006, 10:45 PM

and gauge it by thinking? :s I just do that natually :s When I think about it I stop to early hahaha

and it can't be that bad. Almost 500,000 km/h on my jetta and has only had the clutch replaced because an oil seal went and put oil all over the clutch. My dad drove it the whole time that way. Thats one of the selling points of a standard, can be better on fuel and better on breaks.

***kamesama980*** · 03-24-2006, 01:22 AM

500,000 km/h wow, where were you going, mars for lunch? lol. think logically: engine braking is no harder on the clutch or pplate than accelerating. heck, accelerating is harder cuz giving gas you can put a lot more torque on it than you can engine-braking. what will be hard on the parts is when you downshift if you dont rev-match and the clutch has to balance <1000rpm idle to >4000rpm driving rpm. but then again, no worse than revving to over 4k, and engaging the clutch to start moving. it will cause slightly higher engine wear...again not nearly as much as revving hard. engine braking can only provide as much force as atmospheric pressure can exert on the piston wheras acceleration has that plus the air-fuel explosion that propels the car. so in short, yes itll wear parts faster than not doing it...but not as fast as hard driving.

my own take on it: use engine braking at high speed...highway/interstate...50mph+ to keep from braking at high speed. use brakes at low speed because its more often. if nothing else, its a lot easier to change brake pads or roters (even drive wheel combined hub/roter) than a clutch on a FWD. its no small task on a RWD either

91_CorollaWagon · 03-24-2006, 02:04 AM

I havent been driving stick for too long....but what is rev-matching and double clutching?

John