2003 Corolla S - Check Engine light and dealership's runaround...
I've had my check engine light on my 2003 Corolla S on pretty much ever since I bought it. It started coming on 2 days after I got it about a month and a half ago. I've taken it back to the dealer 6 or 7 times, and they constantly give me the runaround. They've told me it's the gas cap, they've told me it's the charcoal cannister, they claim to fix it, but they just erase the problem code only for it to return a few days later. They actually wanted me to pay $240 for the cannister at first, but I feused to pay. I bought the car like this. I just went looking around, and I believe the problem code is P0420, and they need to replace my engine computer, yet are trying their best to avoid it even though I paid for a warranty. What should I do?
The gas cap problem is been around forever, if you don't tighten your gas cap enough, the computer thinks its bad and turns the CE light on. If you ARE tightening your cap and the light still comes on, chances are you need a new cap.
A loose gas cap lessens the pressure in the gas tank.
The ecu sees this and puts up a EVAP code. PO440/441/446.
It could be loose/cracked vaccum lines, bad O ring on gas cap, bad VSVs, or the canister.
It is VERY unlikely it's the ecu....
They normally don't go bad.
If it does, you will probably have more than 1 code.
There are 2 codes for bad ecu, but I forget them off the top of my head. PO551/2? :shrug:
The dealer doens't mind changing warrenty parts at ALL.
They don't pay, Toyota does....
And it gives the techs work.
What is the mileage?
Do you have any of the factory warrenty left?
I believe EVAP is covered under emissions. Which is more than 3/36.
I'm not positive though.
Do you have the warrenty insurance?
If so, once again the dealer doesn't pay....
The insurance company pays the dealer.
And changing a ECU is EASY money.
Not hard at all...
If you want to know what code[s] you have, run by Autocrap first. Don't clear them though.
One other tip.
For OBDII the CEL will turn off if the problem doesn't occur for 3 CONSECUTIVE trips. The ECU still stores the code, so it's there if you check for them, but the light goes off.
Well I recently took it back again and I watched them as they ran the computer on it. P0440 popped up, but that's the only code that did. They say they've replaced the cannister twice and that didn't work. *sighs* I was hoping it was P0420 so I had an easy solution to my problem.
I bought the car used with 73,000 miles a month ago, and have had the problem since two days after I got it. I PAID for a "warranty", I know that much. They said that Southeast Toyota wouldn't finance it without one. I don't know if it was B.S. or not, but the employees at the service department sure have given me a hard time. The owner (Scott Crump) has been fantastic about everything and told them to fix it no matter what. They're supposed to have a computer ordered, but if there's no way the ECU can send off a 440, I just don't know what is wrong with his stupid mechanics. I'm not even sure if they've replaced the gas cap, checked the VSV valves or the vaccum lines....
Can you explain the OBDII clearing the light situation to me a little more, I don't know much about cars, but after all of these problems, I could probably write a book on emmissions failures. LoL.
I didn't say it couldn't be the ECU, I said it was unlikely. ANY time there is a code, there is always the possibility it is the ECU. VERY unlikely, but possible. More on this in a minute.
I also don't know how capeable the tech working on your car is.
Could be a good on, could be a crappy one....
Even a good tech doesn't always find the problem the first time. Usually yes, but occasionally no. Especially when it is something unusual, like the ecu being bad... :shrug:
Even a bad tech would have likely checked the VSVs and gas cap. :shrug:
The ECU is constantly monitoring each sensor. It knows the sensor should be giving it feedback within a certain value.
Let's use the Oxygen sensor [O2 sensor] as an example.
The signal it sends back is between 0.0 and 1.0 volts, depending on how much O2 is in the exhaust stream. When you are driving around town, the signal varies up and down, from around 0.2 to 0.8 V, back and forth, back and forth.
Let's say the wire falls on the exhaust pipe and melts. The signal will stop, so the ECU turns on the CEL.
Every time you start the engine the ECU sees there is no signal from the O2 sensor, so it keeps the light on.
Now, let's say you pop the hood, find the melted wire, and repair it, but don't clear the ECU memory. The ECU can now see the signal again, but it still has that problem [code] stored in it's memory.
However, once you have made 3 CONSECUTIVE trips without the ECU not seeing the signal, it will turn the light off. It keeps the code stored in it's memory still, until it is activly cleared. But it turns the light off.
Now, as far as what makes a "trip", I don't know the exact specs off the top of my head.
Starting it, running for 10 sec, and stopping it doesn't.
Starting it, driving around for 20 min, making sure the engine is at normal operating temp for most of the drive, and then stopping it does.
Now, back to the ECU possibly being bad.
When the ECU doesn't see a signal, or sees the wrong signal [In your case, it sees the wrong pressure from the sensor], it turns the light on.
This lack of signal or wrong signal can be caused by
1-the actual reading is wrong, such as the wrong pressure in the system
2-a bad sensor, causing the wrong reading
3-a wire cut/broken, not allowing the correct signal to reach the ECU
4-something in the ECU itself either not allowing the correct signal to reach where it needs to go, or the actual portion that needs the signal reading it wrong
A couple things first. 1. How long/mileage is your warranty good for? Maybe the service dept wants your warranty to expire before they work on it or better yet: They know the background on the car from the previous owner and they dont want to tell you whats really going on or they dont know how but dont want to admit it. You have the warranty, you shouldnt have to pay for anything except maybe shop supplies ($20 at best) and thats only after its fixed....
You could ask Dr. Tweak.. look him up on phoenixtuning.com and post your question there.
Buddy.
I have a bit of info for you.
If you have a warrenty, it is NOT the actual dealer that pays for parts/labor.
They get reimbursed.
There is no reason for the dealer itself to not cover you.
A particular tech/service writer might have an issue with it, but not the dealer itself.
In addition, a EVAP code can be MANY things. So if the VSVs check out, it is sometimes hard to find the problem.....
Also, nothing against Tweak, but he knows swaps, not dealers/emissions stuff.
Buddy.
I have a bit of info for you.
If you have a warrenty, it is NOT the actual dealer that pays for parts/labor.
They get reimbursed.
There is no reason for the dealer itself to not cover you.
A particular tech/service writer might have an issue with it, but not the dealer itself.
In addition, a EVAP code can be MANY things. So if the VSVs check out, it is sometimes hard to find the problem.....
Also, nothing against Tweak, but he knows swaps, not dealers/emissions stuff.
The suggestion was made in response to what was said in the original post by JAlexander86. Considering that we are making suggestions about a possible diagnosis and we dont have a definitive answer yet, it might be better to not be judgemental about someone elses suggestions. Also, yes Tweak knows swaps, but I didnt know we had it narrowed down to an emissions problem yet. Who determined that it was an emissions problem? you?
Yes me.
The VAST majority of CELs are emmissions related.
Also, if you read the entire thread, instead of one post, you would have realized it IS emissions related.
PO440 is a EVAP code. Emissions and ONLY emissions.
Anything else?
__________________
92 Alltrac, 85 PU
Last edited by alltracman78; 09-15-2006 at 11:49 PM.
First off, sorry for being a dick about it.....
I was a bit grumpy last night. :P
There is no need to go into past codes.
You have a code, you fix it.
Another code comes up. The next day, the next month, the next year.
You fix it. You don't worry about the old code.
His current code is a EVAP one.
If he get's another code, we can address that one.
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