Need advice on 20V before Saturday...

[DCM]

Hey there, I don't have any time to sit and do a thorough search, but here it goes:

I have a chance to get a 20v st with itb's this w/e and need to know if it will fit my AE92. I have a lsd transaxle to hook it up to and can make any other hardware I need. Engine comes with cut harness, pinouts, (brackets & starter for an ae86) etc. So if you have done this swap, please give me your opinion and any possible major problems I'll encounter.
Thanks a lot!!!

≡Dave

[diver9000]

I've done the swap. I took the 4age out and dropped in a 20v ST. If you are putting it in the ae92 then why worry about the brackets & starter for the ae 86?
Anyway the 20v ST fits directly in the ae 92. All the motor mounts line up. I would go ahead and change them (especially the passenger side upper mount) or urethane them before I drop in the other engine. Its a whole lot easier to do when everything is removed. While you have the engine out, make sure you clean the engine bay real well. Its a perfect time to inspect the cross member the entire front end, the radiator etc.... When you pick up the engine and whatever else you are going to get. Try to ensure you get the entire front clip. Make sure you get the AFM and the ECU as well. If you need an ECU I can get you one, but try to get most of the stuff you need all at one time. Its easier that way.

[diver9000]

Its a nice engine and its much more peppy than the stock engine. You can get good mileage in it and still have a lot of fun driving it. It starts to redline at about 82-8300... just so you know. You can use it to sort of gauge where to push the limits and where not to. Its a good motor and tranny overall. You are getting the tranny with it I hope? Good Luck
BTW the guy you want to look for is Dr. Tweak over at www.phoenixtuning.com he knows engine swaps!

[DCM]

why worry about the brackets & starter for the ae 86?

Well, they just come with it...
Thanks for the reply. The transaxle is off a gze, and I have it already from someone else. I'll see if he's got the afm and ecu, too.

[diver9000]

I dont think the gze axle will work with the 20v, but I've never tried it myself. If your new engine comes with the tranny already bolted on, then just work with that for now. That gze transaxle will be worth some cash to someone who needs one. Dont toss it whatever you do. You will like the 20v once you've finished the installation. It sounds good when all your ITB's are running smoothly.

[toyotaspeed90]

it will work... but the negatives of an e51/58 won't offset the fact that it's an LSD trans...

they are MUCH heavier (almost twice the weight), axles are hard to find (not the same as US mr2 e51 transmission axles), and they have much taller gearing than C series boxes

[diver9000]

I still think that if DCM can get the tranny with the engine he would be better off, especially if it is still bolted together as one unit. If the clutch is in good shape that will save him time from having to change it as well.

[DCM]

Okay, here's what I have: an '89 gts with the stock 4age that burns tons of oil, with the stock 5spd still all in the car, and an lsd tranny off a gze which is sitting by its lonesome self in my cluttered shop.
To clarify, is the 20V going to bolt up to the lsd (I was going to build a flywheel for it because I don't have one) and work well? I'm not familiar with what the "E51/58" is. If I remember right the guy said it might have been off an mr2. Thanks a lot for the input guys!!!

[Michel H]

AFAIK:

GZE gearboxes/clutches/flywheel = 224mm
GE (ae86/ae82) = 202mm
GE (ae92 and newer) = 212mm

So I guess it won't fit.

You really don't want to drive with the E-gearbox. Those gearings are waaaaayyyy too tall for a N/A high-rpm motor.
Much like the E-boxes, the stock gearbox (c52) that came in your ae92 isn't good for the 20v. Get a 5spd C56 at least. It's a bit stronger (no more 5th gear pop) and shorter gears so it pulls better. I myself went from 4A-GE 16v /w C52 to Blacktop 20v /w C56 and I can tell you the difference is bigger then most ppl will tell you.

[DCM]

Arrr.....okay, so this looks like the best scenario would be for me to get a 20V WITH a transaxle on it, which will bolt right in.
I'm planning to have smaller tires on 14" rims, so would the gze gearing still be too tall?

[Michel H]

Yes it will.
Take a look:

-C52 : 4A-GE 16v: 2e serie AE82 GT + AE92 4A-GE + AE101 Silvertop20v (1st gen.)

1e: 3.166
2e: 1.904
3e: 1.310
4e: 0.969
5e: 0.815
Final: 4.312

-C56 : 4A-GE 20v: AE101 Silvertop (2nd gen.) + AE111 Blacktop

1e: 3.166
2e: 1.904
3e: 1.392
4e: 1.031
5e: 0.815
Final: 4.312

-E51 : AE92/AW-11 4A-GZE (AFM 145hp version)

1e: 3.230
2e: 2.045
3e: 1.333
4e: 0.972
5e: 0.820
Final: 3.933

-E58 : AE92/AE101 4A-GZE (MAP 170hp version) LSD Standard

1e: 3.214
2e: 2.045
3e: 1.333
4e: 0.972
5e: 0.820
Final: 3.944

[diver9000]

This info was originally on club4ag. It may help you to decide and it may not. But generally speaking in my opinion, if the 20v comes with a transmission already bolted to the engine. Then use that one. Then if you dont like it you can start swapping trannys and sit what you like better. But start with the one that is made for it. Take the gze tranny and sell it or bolt it to a gze 16v engine. I hope this info is helpful.

FWD's answer to the RWD transmission info here on club4ag, All the information may not be the same in every country..
*C50 - AE92 SR5 5-speed, 2E engine, most 4AF cars(ae92 sedans)
*C52 - AE92 GT-S 5-speed, Corolla GTi, euro 4af AE92(different final drive), Early AE101, 7afe AE101(different final drive), 4AGE AE82's
*C56 - AE101 5-Speed, AE111
*C59 - 1ZZ 5-Speed
*C60 - Celica GT-S 7th gen, Corolla XRS
*C65M - SMT from MR2 Spyder.
*C150 - Echo
*C160 - AE111 Levin/Trueno 6 Speed(lsd and none lsd versions)
*E51 - AE92 4AGZE 5-Speed(Zenki)
*E52 - 89-91 Camry 2VZFE North America
*E53 - 92-93 Camry 3VZFE North America 5-Speed
*E58 - AE92 4AGZE 5-Speed(Kouki), AE101 4AGZE
*E153 - 97-00 Camry 1MZFE, 99-00 Solara 1MZFE
*S51 - 87-91, 92-96 3SFE and 5SFE Camrys
C50 North American AE102 version 93-97 Corolla 4AFE
1st: 3.545
2nd: 1.904
3rd: 1.310
4th: .969
5th: .815
final drive: 3.722
C52 North American AE102 version 93-97 Corolla 7AFE
1st: 3.166
2nd: 1.904
3rd: 1.310
4th: .969
5th: .815
final drive: 3.722
C52 88-91 AE92 4AGE
1st: 3.166
2nd: 1.904
3rd: 1.310
4th: 0.969
5th: 0.815
Final: 4.312
C56 North American Celica ZZT230 00-05, AE101, AE111 Levin/Trueno
1st: 3.166
2nd: 1.904
3rd: 1.392
4th: 1.031
5th: .815
final drive: 4.312

C59 North American Corolla ZZE110 98-02 1ZZFE
1st: 3.166
2nd: 1.904
3rd: 1.310
4th: .885
5th: .725
final drive: 3.722 03-UP ZZE130 Corolla ratios are the same except for a 3.941 final drive.
C60 All North American 2ZZGE(Celica, Matrix, Corolla XRS, Elise, *not Exige*)
1st: 3.166
2nd: 2.050
3rd: 1.481
4th: 1.166
5th: .916
6th: .725
final drive: 4.529
The 03-05 MR2 Spyder SMT(C65M)
1st: 3.166
2nd: 1.904
3rd: 1.392
4th: 1.031
5th: .815
6th: .725
final drive: 4.312(thanks naviles16v)
C150
1st: 3.545
2nd: 1.904
3rd: 1.310
4th: 0.969
5th: 0.815
Final: 3.526
C160 Levin/Trueno AE111 6 Speed
1st: 3.166
2nd: 2.050
3rd: 1.481
4th: 1.166
5th: 0.916
6th: 0.725
Reverse: 3.250
Final Drive: 4.529
E51 Levin/Trueno AFM 4AGZE
1st - 3.230
2nd - 2.045
3rd - 1.333
4th - 0.972
5th - 0.820
Final-3.933
E52 89-91 Camry 2VZFE North America
1st: 3.230
2nd: 2.045
3rd: 1.333
4th: .972
5th: .820
final drive: 3.933
E53 92-93 Camry 3VZFE North America
1st: 3.538
2nd: 2.045
3rd: 1.333
4th: 1.028
5th: .820
Final drive: 3.625
E58 Levin/Trueno MAP 4AGZE
1st - 3.214
2nd - 2.045
3rd - 1.333
4th - 0.972
5th - 0.820
Final-3.944
E153 97-00 Camry 1MZFE, 99-00 Solara 1MZFE
1st: 3.23
2nd: 1.913
3rd: 1.258
4th: .918
5th: .731
final drive: 3.933
S51 87-91, 92-96 Camry
1st: 3.538
2nd: 1.960
3rd: 1.250
4th: .945
5th: .731
final drive: 3.736(SV21)3.944(SXV10)
c150 - Fitted to 2e-elu (and other lower spec models) EP71 Starlets.
They ran from nov 1984 through to late 1990 I believe although on the lower spec EP80's I think the same box is used.
c152 - Fitted to 2e-telu (Turbo S Version) EP71 starlets. Slightly different ratios and they have a slightly stronger input shaft. There are some slight casing changes.
Both the c150 and c152 come non-lsd although one can be fitted. As far as I'm aware only TRD make these and they may be discontinued.
c52 - Fitted to 4e-fte (GT) EP82 starlets. Much stronger than the c15x's listed above, larger diff and gearsets. Very similar to 4age c52 internally although do have a different final drive ratio and casings. The bellhousing for example is a fair bit different.