AW11 4agze in AE92

[AE86_Celica GTS]

First off, I did search. My brother is considering an AE92 gt-s for his first car and would like to know what possible swaps he can do. We came up with the 20v 4age, or jdm 4agze. He’d prefer to use the usdm 4agze from the aw11, since they are a bit cheaper and easier to come by. Obviously the I/C will have to be relocated, and the valve cover will be backwards. The mounts will be the same but he will need the ecu and wiring harness. Our question is what would need to be done to the tranny, and are there any other necessary mods that need to be done to get the car running after the swap.

[AE92_GTS88]

you should tell him to experience the car first and see how he wants to go from there.

Hmm I am not sure but I think the usdm aw11's 4agze could be a bolt on into the ae92.

I am not sure but you should google it

But seriosly if he wants increased perfomance tell him to change the suspension first! My AE92 gts's stock springs and shocks were like riding waves over speed bumps lol.

[AE86_Celica GTS]

Thanks for the reply. And yes his plan is to keep the car on the stock engine for quite some time until he gets alot of expierence and knows the car well. From what we've researched should fit right in with no problems, only the intercooler reloating, and the tranny should work if what we found was correct. Thanks for the suspension tip as well, I know he would like to lower it, maybe front and rear strut bars down the road. thanks again for the help.

[REN69]

If he's brave enough (like Aaron aka 4AaronGE) he could use the C52 transmission from his AE92 with the GZE without upgrading anything. As Aaron says, as long as you're not doing burn outs and drop clutch take offs the C52 will hold up. You could always go with a heavier duty clutch to withstand the extra torque.

[toyotaspeed90]

actually going with a heavier duty clutch & PP will increase the chance of ruining the trans....

the aw11 gze will bolt in, but the trans won't work w/o modification...

the ae92 and ae101 gze valve covers are still 'backwards'

aw11 gze's are harder to come by, actually.....

[RedruM]

I've already done this swap on someones car.... Dont use the original tranny cause you'll kill the clutch fast, if not the clutch the tranny wont last to long and the driveshafts are much heavyier duty on the gze's... you'll end up ripping something off the car if you dont use the GZE tranny... AW11 gze and tranny will bolt right in, you'll have to mod the shiftercable connectinos on the tranny but it will work. And the top mount intercooler doesnt have to be relocated if you get the GZE hood or just cut the current one. clearance isnt an issue.

this swap is pritty much a plug and play depending on what year the car is... if its 88-89 bluetop the gze stuff will plug in but if its 90-91 redtop then you're gonna have to do somewiring work to the interior harness and chassis harness.

I'd suggest the silvertop 20V instead, its a dirrect bolt in and you can get everything you need for $600.00 for a complete swap. it plugs right into the redtop interior harness but you'd have to do somewiring in the engine bay fusebox.

[AE86_Celica GTS]

Thanks for the info guys, we'll see whats available when the time comes. Just curious where can i get a 20v ST swap for 600? The thing that bothers me about the 20v are how hard parts are to find for it, and i've heard 16v parts won't work, but that could be wrong. Another option we came up with is a JDM Redtop 4age. I think it's rated at 140hp? not bad considering it would save tranny and wiring worries and only 5hp less than an aw11 gze.

One last question, what are the main differences through out 88-91 in ae92s gt-s', I know 90-91 gts seats are different, suspension, etc and now that the 90-91 came with a redtop. HP rating on Redtop vs. Bluetop? Any others?

Any other info is appreciated, thanks for all the help so far guys.

[toyotaspeed90]

don't get caught up in the 'bluetop' and 'redtop' crap...... people always mislabel everything.... even redrum up there...

there technically is no 'bluetop' 4agze.... bluetop generally refers to the blue lettering found on the earlier 4age's.... which were 3 rib blocks and smaller/lighter internals....

a redtop bigport which has red lettering on the valve covers, however, started in 87 and went through 89'ish... still used the same head but had a 7 rib block and larger internals..... lots of people still call that a redtop....

but, in 90/91 there was the smallport 'redtop'..... again because of the red lettering on the valve covers..... there's a huge difference between the smallport redtop and the bigports.... the block itself is the same (except for the addition of the oil cooler hook ups in the n/a engines).... but the pistons are higher compression and it has a tube built into the block for the oil drain-back from the redesigned smallport head.... which, lacks t-vis, has smaller cams, and smaller intake runners.....

and just gonna throw my 2 cents out there.... 20V's are fun engines... but they just don't make the power/torque that the 4agze's do.... and also, good luck finding a good priced e51 with axles...!

[RedruM]

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

don't get caught up in the 'bluetop' and 'redtop' crap...... people always mislabel everything.... even redrum up there...

Hey ASSHOLE... you're the biggest piece of shir out there, thinkin you know everything about everyone and everything.

I DONT MISLABLE ANYTHING... and a lot of others dont either....

General rule based on availabilty in NORT AMERICA was

Bluetop = bigport... NOT BASED ON THE LETTERING COLOURS. 99% came with fuckin blueletters but its easier to explain it as bluetop then try tell most the kids on TN about small port and big port and all that shit...

When I said BLUETOP i mean the bigport with T-VIS
REDTOP not cause the colours .. but the I mean the small port. NON- T-VIS...

so go fuck yourself before you say shit that I mislabel shit....

[AE86_Celica GTS]

I knew there is no bluetop 4agze. Well now that i know what engine is what is the "bluetop" with tvis bigport rated at 122 hp?

[RedruM]

Originally Posted by AE86_Celica GTS

Thanks for the info guys, we'll see whats available when the time comes. Just curious where can i get a 20v ST swap for 600? The thing that bothers me about the 20v are how hard parts are to find for it, and i've heard 16v parts won't work, but that could be wrong. Another option we came up with is a JDM Redtop 4age. I think it's rated at 140hp? not bad considering it would save tranny and wiring worries and only 5hp less than an aw11 gze.

One last question, what are the main differences through out 88-91 in ae92s gt-s', I know 90-91 gts seats are different, suspension, etc and now that the 90-91 came with a redtop. HP rating on Redtop vs. Bluetop? Any others?

Any other info is appreciated, thanks for all the help so far guys.

OKAY as for you...
IN CANADA
the 88-89 GTS's came with the BIGPORT (refered to as BLUETOP)
90=91 GTS's came with SMALLPORT (refered to as REDTOP)

overall the biggest differences in these cars was the motor, Daytime running lights, interior fabrics, and if you get power windows and doorlocks, the controls for them are much nicer on the 90-91. Instead of stupid little switches on the door panel, its a really nice handle with the switches integrated into the them on the doorpanels.

Bluetop - slow motors that have to be revved up high to keep up with traffic, with exhaust this is annoying.
Redtop - rev up much smoother and driveability is better for city driving

GZE - lots of torque and fast but if you're heavy footed I dont recommend because you'll drink gas and its not really that fun, its heavy, you cant throw it through gears like N/A. Yeah its fast but depends on you're driving style, you want fast and boring. GZE is for you. If you like normal city driving, with the ability to throw it through gears still in the city to have fun N/A.

I recommend 20V st becasue it doesnt rely on sensors as much as the blacktop 20V's. ST more reliable, really fun motor which doesnt have to be reved up super high to keep with traffic, rather upto 2500rpm is good enough to keep up anything above that and you're having some fun and really moving along.

as for parts for the 20V, In Japan the Toyota Cavaliers had 20V's in them and all those ae101, ae111's starting to get cut up and parts getting shipped out here.. Parts are much more available today then they were 2 yrs ago, and much much cheaper.

as for wiring with the different motors, the interior harnesses in the 88-89 plug up to the gze wiring from any gen GZE's... 90-91 interior harnesses plug up with 20v wiring... This will help out alot because I HATE splicing wires( not as reliable as uncut).

As for Toyotaspeed his car is an SR5. totally different from a GTS, even his wiring is totally different.

When I swapped in the redtop(Smallport) I changed all my harnesses, interior, chassis everything). and when I swapped in the 20V all i had to do was plug and play with minimal wire pin relocations.

when the 3sgte all wheel drive shit goes in, its gonna be all changed again.


If you really want I still have all the harnesses and you can come check them out to see the difference.


Check the For Sale section, there was a guy on here from Hamilton selling a complete 20V ST for $600 sometime last month.

[RedruM]

Originally Posted by AE86_Celica GTS

I knew there is no bluetop 4agze. Well now that i know what engine is what is the "bluetop" with tvis bigport rated at 122 hp?

115hp

[RedruM]

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t167322.html

link for the silvertop motor

[AE86_Celica GTS]

alright, thanks for the info. Looks like he might stay n/a and just do a couple bolt ons to the stock motor, if he picks one up. I read on club4ag that the second gen 4age (AE92 90-91) has no TVIS? So no 90-91 gt-s' have tvis?

Thanks again for all the info.

Edit: thats a great price for all of that, Tiger Japanese wants 1500 i think just for a blacktop motor.

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by RedruM

Hey ASSHOLE... you're the biggest piece of shir out there, thinkin you know everything about everyone and everything.

I DONT MISLABLE ANYTHING... and a lot of others dont either....

General rule based on availabilty in NORT AMERICA was

Bluetop = bigport... NOT BASED ON THE LETTERING COLOURS. 99% came with fuckin blueletters but its easier to explain it as bluetop then try tell most the kids on TN about small port and big port and all that shit...

When I said BLUETOP i mean the bigport with T-VIS
REDTOP not cause the colours .. but the I mean the small port. NON- T-VIS...

so go fuck yourself before you say shit that I mislabel shit....

well, you DID mislabel it as there are....

bigport bluetops
bigport redtops
and
smallport redtops


i was giving him some direction as to how the engines ARE labeled..... and i live all of 20 miles south of canada.... the terminology doesn't change..... i've owned all of them....

other designations of the smallport engines (by importers) will be "4age with knock sensor in block"

so... before you call me an ASSHOLE... make sure you're actually correct on your information.... and generally, those that work with 4age's mostly, don't call them 'redtops' or 'bluetops' anyways..... it's generally, bigport 3 rib, bigport 7 rib, and smallports......

so.... why don't you go do the fucking of yourself.... because you did 'mislabel shit....'