Leaking axle seal. Replaced twice

[ericjp]

I have a 2002 Corolla S with a manual transmission. The car has 105,000 miles, however the current transmission was replaced under warrently with a new one at about 37,000.

I got the car with around 12,000 miles on it.

I recently had the clutch, and release bearing replaced because it started making noises in cold weather.

After I had those replaced the noise had gone away. When I took the car to a mechanic he also noticed a leaky axle seal on the right side, so I had him replace that as well. Everythign was fine for about 5 days. About a week ago I go to my car after it has been sitting for about 24 hours, and there is a huge puddle of gear oil on the ground. I was parked on a slant, and the oil leak was about 3 - 4 feet long, and quite thick. For about a week after it was leaking a little bit where in the mornings there would be 1 - 2 inch pools of oil

The mechanic came out after the first time it leaked to look at it, and noticed that it was leaking from the same axle seal he replaced. He didnt think he put it on wrong, but offered to try putting another one on. He did that Friday, and I took it back Saturday so he could see if it was still leaking, and he said it was, but not like it was before.

He is thinking it is a transmission problem. There are no noises when driving the car, and it shifts ok with the exception of in cold weather going into first.

When I first took it to him, he looked at the oil in the transmission, and there was no debris in it, and the color was good. That was the same oil that has been in there since it was replaced at 37,000.

He says the axle looks very good. One thing he did notice was that the side that is leaking is more stiff that the side that is not, and normally if you see more freeplay that will be the one leaking, but it is not in this case.

So, as far as options if it is something in the transmittion is to get one from a salvage yard, a remanufactured, or have someone like aamco look at it,

I am thinking more along the lines of aamco because I know I have not abused the car/transmission, and don't wan't to gamble on one from a salvage yard. Depending on price perhaps the remanufactured one, and have him put it in for me.

So any ideas on if the transmission would cause this, or other possibilities?

Can also answer any additional questions. thanks.

[94_Rolla_Guy]

i agree with not trusting scrap yard trannies, they are there if a case cracks or the old one is totally messed, i got mine rebuilt seems to be working good, but be careful because some places do an exchange meaning they take your old one and give you a fresh one, it would probably be a lot cheaper just to have yours fixed..

another thing you could try is get a Toyota seal and try that see if it leaks or take it to a transmission shop for them to look at.

[toyotaspeed90]

ok, your mechanic i would assume is not very smart......

only 2 things can really be wrong with an output shaft seal

1) it's leaking from the tranny case to the seal
2) it's leaking from the seal to the axle

now... if it's number 1 then either:

a) he installed it wrong (or didn't use a seal installer, and used a socket of about that size and dented it)
b) there's a chip in the transmission side.... easily fixed.... allow the transmission to drain, clean the casing up there, and add some permatex to the seal before installing it..... allow it to set for the required time, then add the axle and the fluid

if it's number 2 then:

a) he installed the axle at a bad angle and caused the seal to deform (which i did on my s/c mr2.... i have a new seal to replace the new seal, but haven't done it yet as mine barely leaks)
b) he's using cheap seals.... the factory (or better) seals have a round spring on the inside of the seal... so that the axle can spin inside of the seal, but the seal still makes a good, well, seal..... the spring allows the rubber to flex/move with the axle a bit and still hold tension in the round of the axle


now if he thinks there's a problem between the transmission and the axle.... then either the axle is shot or your mechanic is an idiot....... the "stub" portion of the axle shaft that goes into the differential is 100% stiff metal, with mating gears and a c-clip at the end to hold it in place..... either that c-clip is loose and the axle is popping in and out or there is something wrong with the inner joint. A cv joint axle is meant to turn and flex (hence CV = constant velocity) at the joints and allow the stiff portions (the axle ends and middle) to stay stiff.... If there is something wrong with the inner joint then the axle could possibly be rotating in strange directions and causing the seal to warp.

In the long run, though, your mechanic should know this and be able to further diagnose the problem without claiming you need $1,000+ in repairs done

[toyotaspeed90]

i'll further explain one other aspect of this as to why it isn't the transmission:

if it was, you would have loud noises or clunking coming from the transmission every time you hit a bump or changed gears..... If your mechanic believes that there is a problem between the axle and the differential (part of the transmission where the axle actually locks into) then the other axle would be having the exact same problem.....

reason I say this is because... surprise surprise.... the differential is all metal gears meshed together.... laws of physics will state that any sort of pressure going one direction of an object, the other end will have an equal but opposite reaction.... so if the differential is allowing the axle to move around and ruin the seal on one side.... it would be ruining the axle on the other side as well....

[ericjp]

Thanks for the info.

b) he's using cheap seals.... the factory (or better) seals have a round spring on the inside of the seal... so that the axle can spin inside of the seal, but the seal still makes a good, well, seal..... the spring allows the rubber to flex/move with the axle a bit and still hold tension in the round of the axle

Guessing they are the better ones as they do have that spring.

Another thing. When I went there the first time for a diagnosis, he had a very hard time getting the axle back it. He was hitting it with a hammer, and when it finally went into place there was a loud snap. I was there one other time he took it off, and he didn't have any trouble getting it in that time.

As far as i know it should be about as easy to put back it, as it was to get out right? Did not think you needed to hammer on it. He was using a rubber hammer, but still.

If your mechanic believes that there is a problem between the axle and the differential (part of the transmission where the axle actually locks into) then the other axle would be having the exact same problem.....

I was wondering this, and had asked him the same question. He explained how the differential works, and that its possible only one side would have the problem. Not being a mechanic I could only take his word on this, because its hard to question concepts that "sound right".

[toyotaspeed90]

this is a generic photo of a fwd differential:



you can see that if there's a problem with this, then you'll be having major problems/noises with the vehicle

the axle should be harder to get out than back in...... the first time he couldn't get it out or in he may have adjusted the spring tension of the c-clip... which if too far open can make the axle difficult to get in (and the solid end can damage the seal when you're trying to get it in) and if it's too far closed the axle might pop in and out, causing either damage to the seal or just a leak in general

[ericjp]

I have also taken it to a toyota dealership asking if they could fully diagnose the problem, and tell me specifically why it was leaking, and if the transmission would cause it.

I end up waiting for about 2 hours for them to tell me it has a leaky seal, and they will replace it for about $170. I questioned them asking what would cause it, is the current one damaged etc, and didn't get a decent response. My guess is they just looked under the car, saw it was leaking, and figured it needed a new seal.


I just moved here, and it sucks not knowing any reputable shops.

Does anyone from Raleigh/Durham have any suggestions on mechanics?

[retiredat44]

I replaced the 1/2 axle on my 1989 Corolla SR5 a while back. The old one had the boots go bad and threw the grease out. I negelcted to put a new seal in (the drivers side), When I put it back together it had a very small laek,. I also noticed that the metal ring that goes between the seal and the U-joint block refused was not up aginst the seal, there is a about ` 1/3 " space between the tranny (seal) and the U-joint ont he 1/2 shaft so that metal ring just floats between the 2. There should be only enough space for that mtel ring to rest up and maybe even slight pressure against the tranny axle seal. I have no clue whay that happened. The other side (passenger side) has no problems and the alxe seal and metal ring is tightly in there without extra space for the ring to move away from the seal and fits tight I think that since the tranny grease, oil is below the axle shaft hole it does not leak.

But I think I will pul the axle out soon, as I need to pull the passenger side hub and replace the bearing and it would be an opportune time to pul that shaft out and put a new seal in that side too. But fo rht elife of me I can't figure out whhy that side is not a Flush up / side tight fit liek the passenger side. Maybe the remanuactured half-shaft I put in there is slightly7 longer? a haitr longer and so the metal washer like thingy won't fit up againt the seal and 'floats' next to it... I hated putitng it togethte rlike that but didn't have much choice... as I could not find a way to solve it... the seal should be flush agsint the washer wich is flush against the first axke U-joint (that's in a metal sealed box closest tot he tranny on the half-shaft).