Bad Head Gasket Again? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

91boz · 07-02-2007, 01:55 AM

Yesterday I noticed a small oil leak from the passenger side front corner where the head meets the block.
I just replaced the head gasket in April for oil in the coolant and also for an oil leak in the same place, front corner of the engine behind the alternator and above the sender switch.

Above pix shows a valley in the head gasket where I assume the oil was leaking. I need to pull the head again and check to see the cause. The head gasket was purchased off of Ebay and the whole gasket set was like $65.00 shipped. How reliable are these gaskets? Iam thinking that the quality of the gasket is poor causing the leak. Should I go to the dealer and spend $90.00 for a factory gasket or maybe a Fel-Pro gasket for around $50.00? Any one else had oil leaking from this front right corner?

ghost_ryder35 · 07-02-2007, 09:27 AM

have the head checked for warping, get it re-surfaced

freakinbox · 07-02-2007, 10:53 AM

hmmm $90 for a oem? Cost me $40 cdn

Donald · 07-02-2007, 11:39 AM

I am with Ghost Ryder.
If you didn't have the head checked for warpage the first time, that is probably the source of problem.

91boz · 07-02-2007, 12:20 PM

The head was sent out to a machine shop and was resurfaced along with new valve seals and a valve grind. The block was checked for warpage with a straight edge and was within specs. I was thinking that although the head was torqed down to 44 ft/lbs in increments and in the correct sequence, some manuals suggest that the bolts should be cleaned with a die and the holes cleaned out with a tap. This was not done but could this be the cause? Perhaps it is leaking fom somewhere else. After I clean the area and drive for 20 minutes the drip starts from the right hand corner where the head meets the block. The cam seal was replaced in April and the oil pump seal behind the lower timing gear was replaced yesterday. The oil pump and oilpan gasket was not replaced but it sits lower than the point of the leak.

Donald · 07-02-2007, 12:47 PM

Not cleaning the bolt and hole threads could possibly be a problem. So could debris getting trapped in the bolt hole.
If the run-on-torque of the bolt is higher than it should be, (stiff to turn by finger) then your torque wrench might regester the required torque without actually pulling the parts together tight enough.

ghost_ryder35 · 07-02-2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91boz

The head was sent out to a machine shop and was resurfaced along with new valve seals and a valve grind. The block was checked for warpage with a straight edge and was within specs. I was thinking that although the head was torqed down to 44 ft/lbs in increments and in the correct sequence, some manuals suggest that the bolts should be cleaned with a die and the holes cleaned out with a tap. This was not done but could this be the cause? Perhaps it is leaking fom somewhere else. After I clean the area and drive for 20 minutes the drip starts from the right hand corner where the head meets the block. The cam seal was replaced in April and the oil pump seal behind the lower timing gear was replaced yesterday. The oil pump and oilpan gasket was not replaced but it sits lower than the point of the leak.

It is recommended to replace head bolts with new ones anytime the head is taken off the block.

91boz · 07-02-2007, 05:40 PM

Yes the torque reading could have been misleading since the bolts seemed a little tight going in the block. I think I have to remove the head and tap the block and bolts. This engine does not use stretch bolts but I agree that I might as well replace the bolts while I'm in there. Ww will see what happens when I remove the head.

Flashmn · 07-02-2007, 05:53 PM

bolts have to be oiled to give a proper torque reading.

AVANT · 07-03-2007, 07:49 PM

For some reason, I recall my manual saying 44ft + 90 degrees... I use the Big Yellow Book (factory manual for AE82s)... but it's spec for a GE not FE

I did go with a cheap headgasket off ebay the first time, it blew on me a few weeks. I too had the head milled and checked the block. I did use new headbolts, but might not have tightened them enough (and I lost the washers for the headbolts)... so I ended up having to open up the motor once more as my coolant and oil were mixing again. The HG appeared questionable, but would have guessed it was ok, but I got a metal headgasket anyways ($60 shipped), tightened them to 44 + 90 degrees, and had washers for the headbolts this time

Haven't had an problem since.

Hopefully the source of your problems isn't an installation mishap like mine

You can see where it was blown, on the head, but you can also see metal rim on the gasket is still intact...

wheredoesthisgo · 07-03-2007, 08:15 PM

Mine is still holding. Used a full felpro head gasket kit, valvle seals, cam seal, valve cover gasket, etc. Put in new timing belt, water pump, timing belt tensioner, I replaced the lower crank seal also. If i recall correctly you torque it to spec, then 45 degrees in sequence and then another 45 degrees in sequence to equal 90 degrees. Not all in one turn. I put nail polish on the bolts so I could see them turn 90 degrees.

91boz · 07-04-2007, 02:02 AM

Pulled the head today and replaced the gasket again. The Ebay gasket Apex brand was soft and musshy in some places so I replaced it with a Fel-Pro brand. I chased all the bolt holes with a tap and used a die on the bolts. The exhaust bolts in the front of the block the first two were prety gunked up. This might explain the leak in the area due to erroneous torque readings. I fact when I was removing the head bolts these two were not as tight as the other eight.
I hope the Fel-Pro gasket is of good quality as they look different from the original and the Apex. The local Toyota dealer was out of stock on the 4AFE gasket so I settled for the Fel-Pro.

root · 07-06-2007, 12:09 AM

Yup, clean those threads. When I did the head for my 20v, I ran a pistol borebrush into the block. Then used ARP studs. I'm going to have to do a ring job sometime soon so I'll have to go through this again, but the studs should make it way easier.

91boz · 07-06-2007, 12:56 AM

Guess what? Opened the hood this morning and I have the same oil leak in the same area.
You can see it in the pix on the block right below the head gasket behind the alternator bracket above oil the sender switch. It starts with a small drip on the middle timing belt cover, just left of center in the pix. The oil drip starts from what looks like right under the front corner of the head and drips down on the cover and the block. I now have the oil cleaned off and the top timing belt cover off and will run it like this to see if the new cam seal is holding up or maybe if the fron tof the valve cover is leaking. This is getting frustrating but also a challenge to find the source of the oil leak. Hopefully the open cover will reveal something.

91boz · 07-06-2007, 04:00 PM

I drove the car to work with the top timing belt cover off and saw that the source of the oil leak was from the camshaft oil seal. Oil was just starting to drip below the seal and down the head. I guess it would eventually find its way along the alternator bracket and middle cover. This seal was replaced in April with the first head gasket job. Maybe its the quality of the Ebay gasket set "Apex" brand I don't know. Funny that the timing belt is not saturated with oil and that there is hardly any oil on the bottom where the crankshaft timing gear is located. Anyway I will replace the seal and hopefully this will end the leak problem