Engine swap.. but which one?

[Punisher]

My question is..

I drive an '89 corolla AE92 SR5 coupe FWD automatic

I want to swap out my 4AF engine and put in a beefier engine.. I was wondering what to go with though.. I've been thinking about the 4AGZE... but I'm not even sure! I want to get an engine that I can comfortably get to like 200WHP (wheel horsepower) or even 220.. I don't want to get an engine which is going to take heavy mod'ing to get to that point.. I want to carburate the engine so no EFI is required.. It has to be an engine that will allow me to drive it every day as well as take it to the track for off-road racing...

I'm kinda lost with this as I know the 4AF.. and now I'm getting into other Toy engines..

So I'm kinda lost between the blue top the red top the silver top.. the 20v.. which one will go right into my engine compartment.. which will run on my automatic tranny.. if I have to swap out the tranny.. will I be able to get an automatic tranny for the new engine with out a huge cost difference.. this and that ya know?

Peace

[micro214_kp61]

ask yourself these following questions so it would be easier for you to decide:

- how much money do i wanna spend on a use motor?
- what am i gonna do with the car after the build-up? is it drag, auto-x or for track lapping?
- am i capable of doing the swap myself or do i need a shop to do it for me? how much would be the install?
- why would i spend all this money building up a 200whp and drive it everyday? isn't it gonna be such a waste?
- why would i wanna put an auto tranny to a 200whp car? i won't be able to maximize the power of my 200whp car, right?

Punisher.. everything comes down to money and availability of the motor. if you're thinking of going to an A type motor, you'll be spending a lot of money pushing the motor to go 200whp on an NA set-up. another thing, if your thinking of going 200whp on a carb powered 16V 4ag, just call TRD and start ordering the parts for a formula atlantic set-up coz i think that's the only way you can do it with carbs. i've never seen a turbo-d/sc carb powered 16V 4ag set-up before. i hope this post help and goodluck bro.

[Punisher]

Well I want to get a motor that is going to give me a good horsepower from it's stock form.. If possible being NA..

I eventually want to build the motor up though and my skills with the car to be a racing ride.. I like off-road track racing and all that.. so I want to get involved with those sports.

I have the skills to do all of the work myself... and whatever carburator I get (most likely a weber) it'll be able to supply fuel for 200HP on an NA.. and I doubt setting up a turbo or SC will be very hard

Maybe I will change my mind about the tranny though.. I'm not sure.. right now being my main ride I want an automatic.. Although once it's just a race car then I suppose I could do the manual..

[Flashmn]

I think you could turbocharge your car with minimal work and get that 200hp out of the 4A-F. Youd need carbs that can take the pressure, I think even the stock carb would do to a certain point. Youd need to make a pressure box to equilize the pressure inside and outside of the carbs and you'd need forged pistons with a lower compression ratio if you plan to boost more.

[Punisher]

Hmm.. I'll have to look at what the Weber can take..

Well, if I kept the 4AF I would get work done to the valvetrain.. get the ports gasket matched.. 3 angle valve job.. racing springs and retainers.. forged pistons and conrods with the lower compression.. plus other engine work to lighten it all up.. then the turbo.. idk..

I think just from getting everything lighter and smoothened up and polished i could get 150ish from the 4AF

I'm thinking about some type of exhaust gas suction system.. ya know to pull the exhaust gas out faster.. basically creating a vacuum in the exhaust system instead of pressure like what is normally present..

[Flashmn]

I'm thinking about some type of exhaust gas suction system.. ya know to pull the exhaust gas out faster.. basically creating a vacuum in the exhaust system instead of pressure like what is normally present..

I dont think there is any way to do that (atleast a wise way) or automotive manufacteurers would already put those into their cars. We're talking sci-fi here already.

get the ports gasket matched.. 3 angle valve job.. racing springs and retainers

Well good luck finding racing springs and retainers. Besides you wont be revving that high with the turbo anyhow. so no worries with the stock springs, keep it about 6k and theres no valve float.
The ports on the stock engine are actually pretty decent. Yes they are small, but the turbo will compensate for it. As for lightened parts, no real need for those with the turbo as you wont rev that high in any case. Stock parts are durable, so it wont leave you stranded. just my opinions

[micro214_kp61]

Flashman.. i'm not very familiar with the 4AF motor, enlighten me why it would be a better choice to turbo that instead of the 4AG. the one thing i know is that the Fs where made for fuel economy not for racing but i could be wrong.

for the force induction issue, why would you guys prefer to use carbs rather than EFI to turbocharge? i'm assuming there's more customizing to run turbo an a carb set-up. a lot of guys i've talked to run a set of SKs on a turbo-d 3TC coz according to them SKs are stronger than webbers. one of the biggest problem i encounter when i was running a dual 40 carb on my 4AG is tuning it. weather temp in toronto, even in the summer, changes drastically through out the day. so when you tune it in the morning come late afternoon your tuning would be of. i just can imagine having the same problem or prolly more if you add a turbo in it. air/fuel mixture should be close to perfection all the time when you run turbo.

another thing too is.. i'm not sure if a turbo 4AF without major internal work can produce 200 whp. i just don't see it. prove me wrong Flashman. i've seen pages after pages of post from club4ag about people trying to sqeeze 200 wheel horsepower on an A type motor and only a handful had luck. so i don't really know. now school my brown ass and prove me wrong...

[Punisher]

Well, EFI is expensive.. and it's computer.. and i hate computers... I like things where I can actually take them apart and see the problems and fix them.. not sutpid ass diagnostic codes.. just my preference..

I don't have any tuning problems like you did, with the difference in air temps with my weber now.. Infact when I took the car out for a drive a month ago when I was just gettin things setup and I didn't have the hood on.. I came around my neighborhood.. turned up my street and stomped it.. and the tach took off like never before.. but now with the hood on and the carb only getting the engine compartment hot air.. she doesn't move like she did that night!

Back then I had the spark timing off.. and the crank timing and tons of crap wasn't timed right.. so I'm really curious as to how much of a punch I will get with a ram-air setup breathing from a scoop I plan to make on the right front 1/4 panel..

But I don't want to drop more cash into this engine for anything if I can't turn it into the racing engine I want.. As it is now it's a nice engine and very reliable..

I want an engine that is basically more powerful from the factory so it's fast on the street.. in my light sr5 ae92 coupe it will haul ass.. plus over time I want to build it up.. SO I was planning on the 4AGZE and carb'ing it.. that would land me at the 160-180HP range stock with the carb on it if I got the Jspec engine.. Then get the engine up to a nice 220ish.. it should make a pretty fucking fast car..

My other issue is I like my automatic tranny for road use.. and when I want to race around and have control of the gears I just slap stick the tranny.. I'll run 1st gear up to like 7,200RPM before I'll slap it into 2nd gear.. and that way I'll be at a nice like 4,500ish on the tach... Run 2nd to like 6.4K rpm's before I'll slap it into Drive.. but then I'll keep the overdrive off..

Ah.. it's nice.. and I keep the 4AF at high RPM's cuz it needs them..

So... I'd like to keep my automatic tranny.. and for now I am going to get into some racing events with my 4AF to learn the skill better .. but eventually I just want to get a new engine whether it's a mix of blocks like a red top bottom and a blue top small port top or a 4agze.. whatever.. and build it up in my spare time and then drop that into my coupe.. got me?

[Punisher]

Oh, also I was thinking though if I don't get the 4AGZE.. I could get a turbocharger now and run it on my 4AF.. Get the right turbo.. so that when I swap to my new engine I can keep the same turbo... ya know.. I wanna limit my costs later and keep my goals straight

[Tercel GTS]

Ok, time for somebody to be brutally honest, I have no problems with that. The good people of this forum have spotted a newbie and they are trying to help rather than flame you, I applaud them for that. Now time for that honesty.

1. Every car manufacture in the world wouldn't have dropped carbs and switched to computers(EFI) if the carbs had been as good. There simply is no way to meter the fuel/air ratio on a carb in the manner possible with EFI.

2. Swapping to a boosted (turbo or supercharged) is the least expensive way to massively increase the power potential. You say you want to stay in a budget, then talk about lightening the internals. Ever priced titanium parts?

3. I seriously doubt an AF auto trans will hold up to a 250hp engine. I'm putting a 3SGTE in a FF car and they say I need a camry V6 5speed to hold up to it(225hp stock). Ever seen the size of an MR2turbo trans? :p

Personally, I'd get the 4AGZE. From what I have read, G heads have a different valve angle than F heads and make higher power. I'd prolly keep the supercharger and get a better pulley ratio. That way you get boost from the basement. Look into buying a half cut so you get all the parts you need. Have fun, and let us know when you get ready to sell that car!

[Punisher]

Tercel, thanks for the input.. I love carbs.. but I can see what you are saying and I'm slowly coming to the realization that well.. I have to move to EFI

Ok, so if I get a 4AGZE frontclip.. it will come with the tranny and all.. I want an automatic tranny.. I can just slap stick it like I do with my 4AF now..

What year 4AGZE should I look for?

Should I want to do any mods to the 4AGZE? Like the cams or intake manifold.. or exhaust manifold? What size exhaust should I go with? Should I get a light-weight Unorthodox fly-wheel for it? Should I do this.. should I do that.. all these quesitons ya know..

I want to drop the 4AGZE and tranny into my ae92 SR5 coupe body as well.. I know there is some suspension changes I will need to do.. but otherwise it should work right? What suspension changes do I need to do..?

[Punisher]

Btw, do you know what the weight of the 4AGZE is? How is it in comparison to my 4AF.. the reason I ask in comparison to my 4AF is .. well I know my 4AF.. heh..

That and I should go with the Jspec 4AGZE right?

That and I wonder what I could get for my 4AF.. with the larger cams now.. and the new carb.. prob not that much but Hopefully enough to help displace some cost of the new stuff

I like my SR5 .. it's a good car and has a lot of potential .. the body itself.. plus I know it inside and out now..

[Punisher]

Originally posted by Punisher
Btw, do you know what the weight of the 4AGZE is? How is it in comparison to my 4AF.. the reason I ask in comparison to my 4AF is .. well I know my 4AF.. heh..

That and I should go with the Jspec 4AGZE right?

That and I wonder what I could get for my 4AF.. with the larger cams now.. and the new carb.. prob not that much but Hopefully enough to help displace some cost of the new stuff

I like my SR5 .. it's a good car and has a lot of potential .. the body itself.. plus I know it inside and out now..

Ah.. and does it help to put a larger intercooler on the SC on the 4AGZE and relocate it to the front .. at the bumper?
Or should I put a larger intercooler on the top of the engine.. or just keep the stock?

I could just fab a nice big hood scoop right over the intercooler..

I should also mention that I want to use no higher than 89oct. except for race day.. I will slap the highest I can find in it for that..

[toyotaspeed90]

tercel gts..... actually from what i've heard the tranny on the 4 cylinder camry is what you would want for a 3s-gte...... seeing how the 4 cyl camry is a 5s-fe it comes from a family of S series motors.... i've looked into a 3s-gte as well and that's what i was told..... and (though i might be wrong) that's what was used on the ae92 that had a 3s-gte installed and was running 13's with 8psi

[Punisher]

Oh well.. I'm seriously confused with what to do.. and honestly I have other things I need to do in life before I occupy myself with this project.. that and I need to actually get into some racing clubs before I start making a racing engine for the fuck of it lol