Starting problems - Electrical.

[pdrover]

I have a 91 Corolla diesel imported from Japan that has developed starting issues.

Problem: Often (but not always), when I attempt to start the engine, it does not turn - just a "click": I turn the ignition switch to the run position to warm the glow plugs, wait for a few seconds (until the glow plugs light disappears from the console) and then proceed to the start position, only to hear a "click" presumably from the starting relay. Dash lights and radio are all functioning normally. I may try this several times with the same result, but eventually the starting motor will engage, the engine turns over, and I'm off. So far the car has not failed to start, but I'm worried that the situation may degrade to a point where the car will refuse to go. I have installed a brand new battery, and while that has improved the situation (fewer retries), the problem has not gone away.

My analysis: Well, it's not a battery problem. I suspect that it is not an alternator problem because a brand new battery hasn't fixed it. I suspect that it is not a starting motor problem because it alway engages if power get to it. I've checked for loose wires concerning the ignition system. So my prime suspect now is the starting relay. Perhaps it's sticking or corroded. Would those that know about these thing concur? Is starting relay replacement something that I can attempt myself (with a basic set of tools and no ramps) or should I deliver it to an auto electrician? Any and all help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul Drover.

[pdrover]

Ok, I've done some more reading. If the wiring to the starter is secure, could it be that I'm experiencing a starter contact problem? I've seen a repair described here: http://www.toyotanation.com/showthre...rter+contacts. When sourcing new contact, does one ask the automotive parts people for "starter contacts"? From past experience, whenever I ask for something like this, the parts person invariably gives me a look as if I have 3 heads. If I use the right words, I might have more luck.

Cheers,
Paul Drover

[Tercel GTS]

You may be able to source the parts at the dealer, or at a starter/alternator rebuilder local in your area. No regular parts store will have them. If you can't find them anywhere let me know and I can send you a set. The ones for a diesel are larger and thicker than gasoline models. Haven't priced them for a diesel, but I doubt they're over $25usd including shipping. Do you have a digital camera by chance? If so a picture of the contacts would assure getting the correct parts as they come in several configurations.

[pdrover]

OK, I've sourced the started contacts... About $10 for a pair... but first I need to get the starter #. I assume that it's printed on the starter somewhere. Does anyone have any details on how to find the starter number? Soon, I have to get down-and-dirty and crawl under the beast, locate the starter, assess if I have to take the whole thing off just to replace the contacts (My hope is that I can do the job without removing the starter from the engine), find the number, hope it starts *one more time*, get the new contacts, and install them. Easy right? Of course, if that doesn't fix the problem, I'm back to square 1 (and my wife's calling a real machanic)!

[Tercel GTS]

You'll have to take the starter off and wipe the decal ,if still on, clean to read the numbers. Or you may be able to call the dealer in your area and get the numbers from them.

[pdrover]

Thanks Tercel, I managed to locate the starter (I've not had much experience with toyota engines before this car), and as luck would have it, there was a shiny sticker still perfectly legible. I was releaved that I didn't have to remove the beast just to see the sticker. I phoned my parts guy and, though he recognized the number, he said that he would still have to see the contacts to get the proper match. The issue with that: I need my car to get the contacts to the parts guy, but my car won't start without the contacts! Oh well. I'll bum a lift from someone.

I was surprised that the start is accessable from above. I full expected to have to spend a whole lot of cursing and swearing time under the car, but no, it's just behind the rad. This'll make the job easier than I expected. Extraction is still an issue though. The starter is under the radiator hose, many cables and wires, and several air conditioning lines. There doesn't seem to be quite enough room to pull it out once it is disconnected. My plan is to remove a small coolant overflow reservoir between the rad and the starter and that should make enough room. If not, I can loosen several cable and hose brackets that will give me some more wiggle room.

I also plan to take digital snaps as I go, so if I really screw something up, I have a hope of putting it back the way it was. The side effect is that I may, if I can figure out how, post my photos.

Cheers
Paul.

[Tercel GTS]

Try driving over to the parts place, the guy might be able to look and see enough to match the correct parts. In fact, if it's that accessable you may be able to swap the contacts while the starter is still bolted to the engine. The contact on the battery side wears fastest.

[pdrover]

Thanks again Tercel, but contacts are on the engine block side, that means that one has to reach over the starting motor to get to the contacts. Perhaps someone well practiced as yourself at this repair might be able to do it without removing the starter, but I'm a klutz as would certainly break a wire/snap a bolt/start a fire. I'm reasonably confident that I can extract the starter and then I can retire to the comfort of my shed to continue the repair. A friend has agreed to give me a lift. Surgery is scheduled for a Wednesday night extraction and a Thursday repair and replacement. I hope the weather is going to cooperate (I havn't a garage).
Paul.

[Tercel GTS]

Point well taken. Try to disconnect the little wire soon as possible in the job as it's the easiest thing to break. It's clipped in normally.

[pdrover]

Extraction is complete. Diesel starter seems exactly like the petrol (gasoline) starter. No surprises, exactly as per Tercel's contact replacement posting. Only hiccup was when I knocked down my 150W shop light and had to finish the extraction with a torch (flashlight). C'est la vie. I'm off to pick up the new contacts shortly. I'll let you know how the rest of the repair goes later.
Paul.

[pdrover]

Success! My Carolla now starts first try every time. I have pictures, but cannot figure out how to insert them into a posting. If someone would care to enlighten me, I'd be happy to share.
Paul.

[Tercel GTS]

Way to go Paul! Glad to see the thread is helping people. As for the pictures I upload to the webspace my internet provider gives for a personal web page and link to the photos there. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dirtwe...y_ww2_flag.gif is where this picture is uploaded

[pdrover]

Ok, Here it goes...
(I've just fixed the pictures)

The patient:


Under the bonnet:

The starter is in the blue box. Note the white radiator overflow container. I had to remove this to make room to extract the starter.

Close up after resevoir removal:


Removing the upper main bolt:

Note the proximity to the positive battery lead. There were momentary fire works when I tried to use and *uninsulated* wrench. Ouch!

Removing the lower main bolt:


Starter extracted:


Cover removed and plunger extracted. Note the wear on the contacts.


Comparison of the old contacts with the new (I was given an extra of the smaller one):

Old contact were eroded about 70%. It was amazing I was able to go as long as I did.

Paul.