2004 corolla - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

mcm · 06-01-2004, 01:34 PM

hello.......i am considering purchasing a 2004 corolla soon and it would be my first ever toyota

my other options are a honda civic or hyundai elantra (with that great waranty)

i drive about 35 miles one way to work and need a very reliable, maintenance free vehicle

please let me know the pros/cons of the 2004 corolla over the other two i mentioned

thanks very much

Hatch · 06-01-2004, 02:13 PM

put it this way hyundai has a great waranty because they always break down - and Toyota is #1 in the J&D Power & Associates vehicle dependability study...plus the engine is a DOHC and uses a timing chain instead of a timing belt and it has irridum tipped spark plugs - all the body seams are sealed with a wax sealant and the strut toiwers are sealed.

I am a saleman for Ens Lexus Toyota in Saskatoon, and i drive a corolla XRS and i would never drive anything else even if i worked somewhere else...the quality is just leagues ahead of any of our competators.

Jeff

rolla-XRS · 06-01-2004, 06:17 PM

Agreed. A few months back my mother's old Benz died and they retired it to auto-hell. Now rather than talk to me in advance so I could arrange for her to get a good deal on a Toyota...she jumped the gun and bought a Hyundai Accent. Yeah that ticked me off some but I can understand that they needed a vehicle immediated rather than in a "few days" with a deal.

Well wouldn't you know it..the Accent has less than 12,000 km on it and it needs a new automatic tranny. Yeah sure they covered it under warranty but she was stranded at the side of the road at night, forced to wait for towing and car-less until the next day. I can't remember if she was given a demo for a week during repairs or if they had to rent a car. Nevertheless...what a pain in the arse.

I don't care what kind of warranty Hyundai offers to "buy" people into their cars. Their quality still stinks. I personally don't wish to spend my life at the dealership waiting for parts and service or driving a rental every few months because of breakdowns under "warranty".

Quality products provide peace of mind. And that's a Toyota. Period.

PS: Check out the resale value of any Hyundai...then check out how much it's worth for scrap. Notice the similarities?

slicendice · 06-04-2004, 01:51 PM

rolla-XRS,
How much did you pay for your vehicle and what Toyota dealership did you go to in Toronto?

rolla-XRS · 06-04-2004, 03:58 PM

Bought it at Brimell Toyota in Scarborough - if you're truely interested in purchasing, then PM me and we can chat.

Hatch · 06-04-2004, 05:12 PM

I drive a XRS - im a salesman at Ens Lexus Toyota in Saskatoon, we have access pricing here - I dont think you guys do yet, but will soon.

Jeff

rolla-XRS · 06-04-2004, 08:13 PM

Yes if memory serves me correct, Access Toyota is due in Ontario this year. It might even be by end of Q3/2004.

LonelyDriver · 06-08-2004, 05:27 PM

I have to say access toyota is a rip off. They should switch back to the old system

Hatch · 06-08-2004, 05:30 PM

rip off? obviously you have never gotten ripped off buy a dealer before.

let me ask u this..when you goto safeway(or any grocery store) do you say "i'll buy this can of soup if you throw in a carrot" no i dont think so...so what makes cars any different? This way you know you are getting a fair price because that is the price that everyone pays.

rolla-XRS · 06-08-2004, 07:26 PM

Access will be a godsend to those people who hate to negotiate and always feel like they're getting screwed by the salesperson (probably because they are). I have heard so many horror stories about people who think they're getting a good deal and then realize they got shafted. The Big-3 are classics at this practice but in reality...a salesperson is a salseperson. They're job is to make money hand-over-fist.

Access is there to protect the customer and make the buying experience less painful.

Access pricing is set by a committee of dealers in a geographic area and is based on values what the market will bear. Cars that aren't selling well will generally be discounted to be competitive. Each dealer (owner or sales manager...not salesperson!!) submits a price at which they would be willing to close a deal at for the car. All the bids in a geographic area are averaged and that's the Access price. The Access price can never be higher than Toyota's MSRP.

Perhaps the most critical benefits for most customers are these:

1) With Access you (the customer) will now see exactly what the dealer pays Toyota Canada for the vehicle (full disclosure) and what the dealer makes as profit. Typical profit is 5-7% which is fairly normal considering that you have to pay a salesperson and keep ther dealership solvent.

With Access, the dealer is ALLOWED to sell for LESS than the Access price...but NEVER MORE than Access price.

How many of us have heard stories where an unscrupulous dealer gave an unsuspecting customer a "so-called" deal like "$500 over invoice"...only to realize that the "invoice" was MSRP. Can you say "screwed"?

FWIW, auto manufacturers make virtually no $$ on cars...it's all on parts and service. So there's no point trying to get blood from a stone. Just my 2-cents.

LonelyDriver · 06-08-2004, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rolla-XRS
Access will be a godsend to those people who hate to negotiate and always feel like they're getting screwed by the salesperson (probably because they are). I have heard so many horror stories about people who think they're getting a good deal and then realize they got shafted. The Big-3 are classics at this practice but in reality...a salesperson is a salseperson. They're job is to make money hand-over-fist.

Access is there to protect the customer and make the buying experience less painful.

Access pricing is set by a committee of dealers in a geographic area and is based on values what the market will bear. Cars that aren't selling well will generally be discounted to be competitive. Each dealer (owner or sales manager...not salesperson!!) submits a price at which they would be willing to close a deal at for the car. All the bids in a geographic area are averaged and that's the Access price. The Access price can never be higher than Toyota's MSRP.

Perhaps the most critical benefits for most customers are these:

1) With Access you (the customer) will now see exactly what the dealer pays Toyota Canada for the vehicle (full disclosure) and what the dealer makes as profit. Typical profit is 5-7% which is fairly normal considering that you have to pay a salesperson and keep ther dealership solvent.

With Access, the dealer is ALLOWED to sell for LESS than the Access price...but NEVER MORE than Access price.

Toyota's been disclosing their MSRP of there cars on there website for years. As most car manufactures have also been doing. In addition, reliable magazine such as consumer reports(US magazine but has a canadian supplement that lists MSRP prices) and lemon aid (canada), etc have been publishing MSRP. Unfortunately some people aren't aware of these resources and don't do enough research when buying a car and therefore become easy targets for sales people.

In my opinion access pricing has made it easier for the sales person to take advantage of the buyer. Most car buyers are very well informed and do thorough research before buying their car. they know the price of the car and how much they will should be paying. Access prevents any negotiation for a fair price. Even though the dealer is able to set a lower price I have never even seen an ad in the paper lower than the MSRP. This being the dealers main way of getting customers to come see the cars.

The buyer does not see the dealer's invoice price. The dealership does not disclose their invoice price. The buyer only sees the MSRP with access. This is not what the dealership pays Toyota for their cars.

By the way, there is a law suit pending agianst Toyota Canada dealing with access pricing. Phil Edmonston, author of lemon aid, is spear heading it. Toyota Canada may be violating anti trust laws. Though it doesn't look like this case will go anywhere. Probably not enough evidence.

Quote:

How many of us have heard stories where an unscrupulous dealer gave an unsuspecting customer a "so-called" deal like "$500 over invoice"...only to realize that the "invoice" was MSRP. Can you say "screwed"?

It's true that sales people will try to scam customers. They are there only for themselves and if they tell you otherwise you should find a more reliable sales person.

Quote:

[FWIW, auto manufacturers make virtually no $$ on cars...it's all on parts and service. So there's no point trying to get blood from a stone. Just my 2-cents.

Car manufactures do make money on cars they sell. Exception being GM who makes all their money from their finacial services arm. This is there whole reason for them to produce cars, otherwise they'd all be parts supplies. Manufactures make zero money on services (ie maintaince) those are run by the independant franchises. In fact car manufactures lose money every time a car is brought in for warranty work.

LonelyDriver · 06-08-2004, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hatch
rip off? obviously you have never gotten ripped off buy a dealer before.

let me ask u this..when you goto safeway(or any grocery store) do you say "i'll buy this can of soup if you throw in a carrot" no i dont think so...so what makes cars any different? This way you know you are getting a fair price because that is the price that everyone pays.

I don't think you can equate buying a car with buying something at safeway.

Buying a new car is major purchase. More in line with buying real estate. Would you buy a house if the person said, " Oh by the way I'm going to charge you an extra 10% as extra profit for myself"?

Hatch · 06-09-2004, 02:29 AM

The law suit was solved and Toyota was found at no fault - FYI

LonelyDriver - an 'extra' 10%? if you compare the price of the toyota vechiles before and after access toyota over the past....oh lets say 10 years the prices havent even increased to match the standard inflation rate...so just curious as to where you get that they are charging more for the car now?

The way i see it is that if you want to bargain, go buy something else - to be able to purchase a new Toyota you must pay the Access price and if you dont want too, then dont buy it.

Dai_Shan · 06-09-2004, 10:02 AM

I was in a similar situation as you....corolla vs civic...

Civic is a good standby, a classic entrylevel cool car...but interior looks like an 89 Escort!!! They havn't updated the interior since at least 98(friend has one).

Stuff like gas mileage, price etc is simlar...

I just picked up my Corolla yesterday (2005 'S') must say..."im in love" haha coudn't be happier.

Love the Online salesmen and the no haggle deal. (charge invoice cost...nothing more)

kasimmmmm · 06-09-2004, 10:24 AM

I have friends that drive both. Civic is a good car. But corolla is better! Driven both as well.
You can notice right away when you sit in a civic cockpit that there's a lot of plastic and feels delicate and cheap. Not the same for a corolla. Also, not a lot of people know this (i know its not a big deal but...)Honda's seats are made by the same company that makes seats for dodge neon. I know this because a friend of mine works at the factory that makes these seats.
The corolla is much more comfortable and the handling is way superior than than the civics.

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