No turbos allowed

[89TweenKam]

Ok this is my idea....and please no jokes I am a Noob so be gentle....

Since I am and have never really been a fan of Turbos or Superchargers, I was planning on turning my nice new 89 GTS into an All-Engine monster without a turbo or S/C. I was wondering if anyone here had tried this before and what kind of HP am I looking at making. Don't hafta be specific just a ballpark idea is cool. Say with all the normal mods but no turbo or S/C, a nice radically aggressive cam setup, fuel injection upgrade, intake, headers, and exhaust, y'know all the normal stuff....My bro and I were trying to figure it out last night and we couldn't really find any accurate numbers to go off of....We aren't even sure how much HP this thing has to start with....120? 130?? 140!?!? Bueller.....Bueller.....Bueller......

Thanks

Mark

[Chris Corolla S]

I don't know if your year has the high comp or low comp engine.

The high comp claims 130 Fly Wheel HP stock. The low comp has I belive 120HP or so. The seem to dyno around 90-110 Wheel Horsepower depending on the year and condition.

I have heard 4a-ges with full bolt-ons and cams can run very nice and I suspect 150 whp would be reasonable depending on the level of tune.

[MRQtwinturbo]

all engine monster out of a four cyclinder.....w/o any form of forced induction......good luck.....

[89TweenKam]

Mine is the Hi comp, that much I do know.....As far as tune level we plan on being VERY aggressive....


And MRQturbo, I use the term monster loosely....I was just trying to get my point across on what I wanna do. And you can get power from any engine even this, it may not be much but it'll still be power....I don't want a racecar right outta the box, I wanna build to that. I don't have the financial backing to go all out on a turbo setup. So I'm gonna start small and work up to it if I feel so inclined. But as I said, I dont like turbos....

You see any idiot with enough money can make his/her car powerful with a turbo, but a TRUE car enthusiast and artiste will find ways to squeeze power out of what you already have....do you get where I coming from?


Just wait until I stuff a 5.0 Mustang engine in it

[Pineapple]

Great, do some search on Formula Atlantic 4A-GE. There are parts availiable to do it. You won't get full 240 race power but could do 200HP. Only thing is, its a high reving engine. You will have no low end torque. While other up shift at 7000rpm, you'll need to down shift

[toyotaspeed90]

the stock 89 gt-s has a bigport 4age..... 115hp (85-87 was 112hp, had smaller injectors and a different afm).....

there are several variants of the 4age engine.... ranging from what you have (base) to the 4age blacktop (map based, 20V, ITB's)..... you can do a swap, or you can build your 4age fairly well

there are tons of cams available, HKS makes some of the more popular sets... however, don't forget that with the bigger cams also comes higher rpm ranges (and higher power bands) and less daily driveability..... you can raise compression, you can lower it... you can get higher compression pistons etc etc etc....

with a 4age, there's little limit... you can even (if you're rich enough) build your own version of the formula atlantic 4age engine.... 240hp 16V 11,000 rpm limit... however, i doubt that would be very fun to drive in traffic

[89TweenKam]

That's not quite what I want....7000rpm down shifts....ummm no thanks....I'll look into another avenue, but thanks for the info Pineapple and you too toyotaspeed.....

You guys realize that you are sucking all the fun outta my idea and making me realize it may not be a good way to go....DAMMIT.....I really didn't want to have to go with a turbo....but I guess I may have to....

[toyotaspeed90]

no.... that isn't what i'm saying..... you can easily make it a much faster n/a car with daily driveability.... what i was saying is that if you get too out of hand then it won't be a DD

you can also build a 7age motor, and actually have some torque in the car

[89TweenKam]

I hear you...I smoke what your passin......It can be done but don't go nuts....is that what you're saying? I never intended to go too overboard with this but you know a little extra power never hurt anyone.....well if you count smacking into a wall at 100mph. I have done absolutely nothing to the car yet, this was just my first brainstorm idea for what I wanna do...I still have a lot of research to do so who knows by the end of it all I may change my own mind on the use of Turbos....but that's not likely.....


What are your thoughts on stroker kits?

[Foolish86]

As of yet i haven't seen a stroker for a any 4AGE, but you can look. i didn't look that much. If you got a stroker, you would also have to bore the engine. You may be able to bore it one hundred thousandths. I wouldn't do a stroker, seeing how you said "...don't have the financial backing...". Strokers are expensive to do man.

First i would get your head port and polished. It is like $200. Then, I would get forged pistons, rods, and a crank. Then get valves lifters and retainers. And if you still have money left get a set of cams. Then if you still have money left, go ahead and get headers and an intake while the engine is out of the car. Then, get all of the bolt ons, exhaust, ect. Then, AFTER you get an intake, get a fuel rail and injectors.

You may even be able to find an aluminium block....but i have never looked for one.

And look into your transmisssion while the engine is out.

[toyotaspeed90]

hks used to make a stroker kit... called a 5age.... not sure if it's still around or not

[REN69]

the 4AGE is not a good candidate for a turbo setup. A 4AGZE would make a much better candidate due to it being reinforced for the supercharger duties.

You could get a 4AGZE swap, throw some HKS cams, intake-exhaust, etc.. and be looking at some decent HP depending on which GZE you get. OR if you want more power out of the GZE, you could go the twincharger way and add a turbocharger to the supercharger.

OR you could say screw that 4AGE/4AGZE setup and go for a 3SGTE swap from an MR2 turbo or a Celica ALL-TRAC plus a 3SGE transmission from a camry, add a heavy duty clutch and you got yourself a nice 200-250hp + ride.. right out the box. Now can you imagine the HP you could pull after doing some work on that 3SGTE??

[Voodoo.Priest]

Originally posted by MRQturbo
all engine monster out of a four cyclinder.....w/o any form of forced induction......good luck.....

I don't see how the Atlantic serise is anything but a monster engine. Unless Formula Atlantic racing isn't at all fast... But I see where you are going. Most people usualy only N/A tune up to 140-180 hp. But still fairly good concidering the size of the car.

Originally posted by Pineapple
Great, do some search on Formula Atlantic 4A-GE. There are parts availiable to do it. You won't get full 240 race power but could do 200HP. Only thing is, its a high reving engine. You will have no low end torque. While other up shift at 7000rpm, you'll need to down shift

My thoughts exactly. The 4A-GE Atlantic Serise is my deam set up but realiticaly thinking it does not seem like an afordable option unless the engine is used and not rebuilt. Even then you will need to do a lot of tranny and suspension work to use it's potential. Also a new exhaust will be needed.

[jayboogie]

my uncle used to tune his AW11, and knows a company in Daly City that manufactures Formula Atlantic PARTS (not the engines. oh God.)

my uncle figured it would be too expensive having two kids and a family, so he does circuit go-kart racing

the biggest question is... will you be willing to swap your engine? (toyota of course)

the "least" biggest headache would be a 20v swap, with new cams/gears... running open tb's youll have one of the fastest street cars out there. not smoggable. but fast.

if youre going to use your redtop... which im not sure if it is or not, 89 was the debut for the hi-comp but also included blue-tops... depends on your lettering if you know the color hasnt been tampered with... anyways...

from any base redtop bluetop, expect about 155, give or take 10.

theres a guide on this for lightly tuning ae92's:

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20t...ning_guide.htm

good luck

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally posted by jayboogie


the "least" biggest headache would be a 20v swap, with new cams/gears... running open tb's youll have one of the fastest street cars out there. not smoggable. but fast.

good luck

actually a friend of mine had his 20V installed by a shop, and it took them over 6 MONTHS to finish it.... and when all was said and done, he couldn't keep up with my ae92