With Initial D, Super Street, Speed Trial and Moto's Drift Day, there's a marked increase in popularity of the AE86. There has been far more people looking and purchasing 86's over the past year or so further depleting the stock 86's found across not only Canada, but North America on a whole. With that said, any car that faces such rarity should have some sort of buyers etiqute involved. Just like Ferrari or Aston Martin, there should be a procedure, a protocol involved with the pruchase and upgrading of an 86.
Why may you ask? Because it seems that over the past year, the heritage and essence of the 86 has slowly been depreciating because of non-enthusiasts with deep pockets. Bandwagoners with wads of cash that side-step the build up process, the sourcing of parts, the reasearch, the hours of frustration...the learning curve, always associated with vintage cars are slowly dragging down the REAL meaning of owing a Hachiroku. It would appear, that the mentality that dominates the honda forum (you don't modify your car, you modi-buy it)seems to be seeping into the 86 forum where, modi-buying your car has never really existed.
Is this elitist? Is this trying to be exclusive? YES!!! The preservation of heritage depends on maintaining a certain standard by which all ENTHUSIASTS should adhere to or else, the 86 faces the same bastardization that Civics incurred in the mid 90's.
There needs to be a standard set to weed out the "kids" that want to immitate from the true enthusiasts. Every ae86 owner should have owned supra rims or stock rims for a lengthy time before getting jdm rims; 86 enthusiasts wait 2 or 3 years before securing a Kouki or Zenki bumper,they just don;t buy one for sh*ts and giggles; all 86 enthusiasts know the different traits between the 16v bluetop, highcomp redtop, 20v and the gze; true enthusiasts know the difference between "redlines","whitelines"," zenkis" and "levins"; true enthusiasts know whats best for their car.
There has to be a separation between the heralded 86 owner and the kid that wants to be like Takumi. Hell, if you have never even heard of Running Free, Rally Kids, Hiroshi, Keichi or even Option, then perhaps you shouldn't be looking to "JDM" your 86. If you don't know how to change your oil, or let alone reaseach how things work on the 86, then perhaps you should not own the hachiroku.
Consider me a purist or even an elitist. In any case, I feel a "stable" of some sort needs to be established in order to preserve both the japanese and north american heritage of the ae86. you should have to prove that you have knowldege of the ae86 culture in Japan before you secure a kouki bumper. You should prove that you know what a 20v will do over a gze before you get a swap. Just like ferrari, owners need to EARN their ultimate 86 and just not BUY them. time, effort and passion are what drive the hachiroku, not a visa gold card.
Nicely said! If you've never lay under your car staring blankly as you comtemplated why that nut or bolt or oil filter was so damned tight but you didn't want to give up even tho your arms were sore and burnt on the exhaust from trying to remove it for the past half hour or have never got a shot of warm oil on your cheek, then you're not a true enthusiast.
Another part of the problem I see is that the people who were there "before" and claim to have passion for these cars and the lifestyle.. most of them are too apathetic to the newbies or bandwagoners.
I think too many people are saying "Ignore them, it'll pass."
i can understand its easy to get frustrated and say "to hell with it all," but I also think there would be less of a problem if people were more willing to contribute to the community and help shape it.. and help educate..
and what if they don't go away? then we'll have a scene built on altezza lights and the BS stories of internet drifters .. and that would be a shame..
__________________ mr sinister
1987 ae86 - black hatch
--- GTP Light Tune SPL Super Lace Edition
2001 VW GTI 1.8T
--- "Racing" pedals. my website
We'll always be a step ahead of the tourists Nick. When they're just picking up their cars and getting them into shape, we're using our cars at the track. When they're just buying rims and Trueno/Apex stickers to impress the Initial-D fans, we're doing motor swaps, installing LSD's, tuning our suspensions, fabricating our own parts and so on...
Most importantly, we've been driving our cars longer than the new guys just getting AE86's now. That's something you can't just open your wallet and buy, right?
On 2002-07-15 15:40, DerekDorifto wrote:
When they're just buying rims and Trueno/Apex stickers to impress the Initial-D fans, we're doing motor swaps, blah blah
what exactly is the purpose of motor swaps. i mean, i fail to believe that every person who's ever done a swap, unless the guy's engine blew up or something, has absolutely maxed out the potential of the engine.
i see this everyday at work, ppl dumping 1-2 Gees on golf clubs. frig, if you can't break 100 with the current set, ya think new sticks is gonna helP? no.. lessons will help.
after much thoughts, my thinking towards engine swapping and other big budget mods are slowly leaning towards that. if you can absolutely drive your car to the max EVERY time, then yah i can see how you'd want more power or upgrades. if not, why get em?
edit: Nick, i totally agree with what you said. however, i cant' control or change things that are beyond my control. i guess as long as you know what you are doing makes sense and is right in terms of an enthusiasts point of view, that's all that matters. you seriously wouldn't think that the Ferrari or other exotic car scenes (or hell even the BMW ppl) are solely consisting of enthusiasts do ya? that's kinda unrealistic. bandwagon jumping happens everyday in every situation.
just like 20 handicappers saying they need to play blades :smile:
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lafora on 2002-07-15 18:42 ]</font>
with being too busy to send me an email for 4 days, where oh where did you have the time to think up that piece? :grin:
anyways, you are totally correct.
a truly dedicated auto lover will find something to appreciate in all cars, and in working on their own, they make carefully justified decisions.
they also know the hardships in breaking rusted bolts, and braking tools, and replacing parts that were not properly replaced in the past.
We know what it is like to try to repair leaking exhausts, instead of whipping out an issue of sport compact car and dailing a 1-800 number...
we don't go about replacing parts "because the stock ones don't seem to be good enough", we don't replace exhausts on cars that have perfectly good ones - "but they are ONLY stock", unless they are being purpose built.. instead we replace parts that are
1. broken
2. over due for replacement from being neglected or being put off.
__________________
siu-sum loy-yun
nothing is forever æ92.FF.pilot
I've never swapped motors in any of my personal cars. However, I did spend a full weekend with Nick Peter and Randy swapping his engine to help out and learn hands-on to prepare for my planned motor swap.
My point was that spending time wrenching is one of the best ways to understand the car you drive. Understanding and working on your own car whenever possible is an excellent way to save up money for big ticket items.
In my case, I'm swapping engines to freshen up a 17 year old car with a more modern and more powerful engine. Let's face it, base Echo's and Corolla's have more horsepower than our AE86's. For me, a 4AGE will not have the torque or range of flexibility a 4AGZE posesses.
Ask Jover, Eric Lee, Yasin, Neil, Patrick - aka Rolla Pat, or Martin aka Yellow MR2 for their perspectives on engine swaps.
Quote:
On 2002-07-15 18:39, Lafora wrote:
what exactly is the purpose of motor swaps. i mean, i fail to believe that every person who's ever done a swap, unless the guy's engine blew up or something, has absolutely maxed out the potential of the engine.
On 2002-07-15 20:42, DerekDorifto wrote:
I've never swapped motors in any of my personal cars. However, I did spend a full weekend with Nick Peter and Randy swapping his engine to help out and learn hands-on to prepare for my planned motor swap.
My point was that spending time wrenching is one of the best ways to understand the car you drive. Understanding and working on your own car whenever possible is an excellent way to save up money for big ticket items.
you won't hear me arguing against that one derek :smile:
__________________ My blog
Fast and cheap won't be reliable.
Cheap and reliable won't be fast.
And fast and reliable won't be cheap
With any luck ricers will stick with Honda and trick out old Accords due to not wanting to wait for one to come up for sale.
And I'll be sticking with a 16V. If mine ever blows up I have another one waiting to take its place. :grin:
Also if any one was wondering why I'm getting skirts and spioler it is cuz I'm having all the rust on my car removed. So since Im having some new metal put on and getting it repaited I figured I may as well do it now and get it over with.
On a side not I don't mind if all these kids switch to 20V. This will just mean that there will be more 16V's for me.
_________________
"Evil flows through the Zig Zag"
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Voodoo.Priest on 2002-07-15 23:05 ]</font>
On 2002-07-15 21:30, Voodoo.Priest wrote:
With any luck ricers will stick with Honda and trick out old Accords due to not wanting to wait for one to come up for sale.
exactly, why is everyone so afraid of "ricers" polluting the ae86 community? what is the true nature of these "ricers"? they don't like effort, they want easy instant satisfaction, and a 16 yr old corolla is totally opposite from all this, else why would all the "ricers" end up getting hondas? even IF some of them get their hands on a 86, they will grow tired of the maintainance, the problems, the dis-respect of owning an old rust-bucket, and soon they will end up selling it again
...or if some of them really has the passion for these cars they might just turn into true fans of the car, i mean you gotta give others a chance right? instead of bashing at every new comer who wants a AE86 maybe we should help them out, it doesn't matter if they're takumi-wannabes or not, as long as we did OUR part as a true enthusiast then its ok
Quote:
Also if any one was wondering why I'm getting skirts and spioler it is cuz I'm having all the rust on my car removed. So since Im having some new metal put on and getting it repaited I figured I may as well do it now and get it over with.
i feel you shouldn't have to explain yourself, like someone said before, if it feels right in your own way then do it, its YOUR car, not others
On 2002-07-15 23:21, project trueno wrote:
instead of bashing at every new comer who wants a AE86 maybe we should help them out,
ever talk to those peeps from west coast? fvck if half the guys out here are as helpful as they are, the world'd be a better place already
still don't get what's with this elitist mentality. we all drive the same car, the least we could do is have some kind of a common bond and help each other out. instead of saying, "oh..i got my car wayyyy earlier than you so i'm more hardcore, or i'm a true enthusiasts" true enthusiasts welcome ppl into their family, instead of shunning em out. ever been to the Thousand island Z car club meets? feck i don't drive a Z and they still were nice and all.
i ain't gonna name names, and i'm not the only one that share this sentiments, but some of the attitudes that's DISPLAYED by certain 86ers in GTA is absolutely DISGUSTING. ( i know i myself had my moments too, sorry PT :smile: ) but feck, instead of making other ppl feel bad, hw bout we all have a look inside and see how WE can make this a better community.
if you got some constructive comments or helpful tips, share it. don't just all be bashing the newbies. fvck, i'm sure the majority of us didn't know what we know now when we were sucking on a fvcking bottle.
would it really take 5 years of our lives to make the newcoming enthusiasts lives easier?
Quote:
you should have to prove that you have knowldege of the ae86 culture in Japan before you secure a kouki bumper. You should prove that you know what a 20v will do over a gze before you get a swap
why should the new guy prove anything. feck, did YOU have to prove the pythagoras theorem before they taught you that sh*t? is it that hard for us to EDUCATE these ppl on these values so that they don't go into the dark side?
bottom line is:
how bout instead of bashing and mocking, we start educating and lose this elitist bulls**t. we are driving a 16 year old GTS. not a fvcking McLaren F1 LM.
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lafora on 2002-07-16 00:00 ]</font>
i myself am a "newbie". i've been driving an 86 for 2 years without any "knowledge" of my car. i thought i was some weird guy who likes his old corolla. now i found a bunch of other weird guys who like the old corolla, heh. i had a passion for it before, now my passion for my car has doubled. i dont talk much here, i mostly just sit here and listen to what you guys have to say and i'll tell you i've learned a lot. you guys taught me what a 4ag was. what is the difference between a 20v and a 4agze, and other random things. i have an sr5 and i'm looking for a gts. i want it to be a project car, i want to learn the inner workings of this car, i've never had this much interest in cars before. who knows i might take it to the track but i just really enjoy driving it in the street. i love this car (and when i say i love this car, i mean i dont let anyone drive it but me), is that enough to be an enthusiast?
yet, i totally see whats happening here too. i've been watching intial d with some friends, and i'm all proud i have a simular car. and i've said i'm gonna buy another one. but yet, they all want one too. and i dunno i guess that gets me frustrated too because i know they will not take care of it, and i know it will be a car that sits out in the garage rotting because they dont want to deal with it. so yes i do see where you are getting discouraged.
anyway even though i dont have the years under my belt i see what you guys are saying and i also think we can shape the community by helping out and offering advice. its helped me out.
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...skeetzilla
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skeetzilla on 2002-07-16 00:50 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skeetzilla on 2002-07-16 00:51 ]</font>
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