20v swap...help (cont)

[etxxz]

it got closed due to two superminds deciding over a solution: 20V Ae86 swap....distributor help

Just to solve the problem, i am cutting the firewall.

I believe the last topic addressed was if the SR5 tranny would bolt right on? (~pilot bushing)

Originally Posted by Kwanza

Back on topic... you probably cannot use the SR5 bellhousing because the 4AGE exhaust manifold will be in the way of the SR5 slave cylinder. I personally simply used a GTS tranny. Of course, last time around flashmn reccomended...[] That's the only real difference between the SR5 tranny and GTS tranny... the bellhousings. Also... you won't need the secondary O2 unless you're gonna wire up everything according to the JDM ae101 specs... for the most part, all you need is the primary O2, which is a 4 wire O2 that you can source from most 97+ toyotas. I can't even say for sure if the JDM AE101 has a secondary O2... but most likely it does.

THEN

Originally Posted by micro214_kp61

Kwanza.. i'm not particular with the SR5 tranny but is the bellhousing the ONLY difference? are the gears the same as well? i'm just thinking wouldn't it be just a little cheaper just to find a GT-S tranny? i've seen them around $150.

so i say:
can it be possible to play around with the slave cyl so that i can use the sr5 tranny?
I'm sure i'll need the O2 meaning i'll need to incorporate this in the downpipe somehow, since i need to get a custom exhaust anyways, i'll tell the dud to make the hole having previously visited my neighbor's corolla

cost of total project is rapidly approaching $2000!! <--took~10months to save up!!
(engine_set+labor+fuelpump+electrical+O2) -> add $100 for the car's cost

this thread is pretty informative



VERY IMPORTANT...can i still use my current power steering system with the 20V ps pump?

[etxxz]

btw i thought i should add...my current 4AC engine seems to be running on 1 or 2 pisons no wonder it wants to stall under 1500rpm and idles at 2500-3300rpm.
all pistons do seem to work under WOT though...heh now you know why i'm swapping engines

[Kwanza]

To answer micro's question... it's believed that the SR5 tranny and the GTS tranny, along with other T50 trannies that were also available with the KP's and Mangos, all have essentially the same gearing with different final drives and speedo gears. At the most... the gearing would only be slightly different, but most people believe it's the same. Each has a different bellhousing, the K series which is similar to the AE86 SR5, but I believe with a different pattern for the block. Then there is the SR5 bellhousing itself... and then there is the GTS bellhousing. I'm not gonna say the SR5 bell won't work, cause it may work with some modifications to the clutch fork and slave cylinder, or the exhaust manifold... but the relevant problem is the steering rack, the slave cylinder and the exhaust manifolds are all fighting for space. The easiest solution... get a GTS bellhousing (and clutch lines). The SR5 tranny should bolt on because the patterns are essentially the same between all of the A series engines. The difference is the SR5 bell was designed to work with the 4AC, which has the exhaust manifold right under the intake manifold and on the opposite side of the 4AGE.

[etxxz]

interesting. I talked with my engine provider from CA and they said the sr5 tranny does work, with no clutch fork/header modification, but did say something about moving the slave cyl.

Now, i've probably sounded very smart in the past...but i have no idea what/where the slave cyl is...i know the master's with the break booster.

I just also checked the engine bay and i see that the tranny shouln't block anything, but he steering rack is RIGHT IN THE FRIKIN middle of EVERYTHING how did you get about it?

[damm i got the keyboard dirty]

Man i'm so pumped...what about power steering? can my mech make it work or is it impossible to do?



*nothing beats easy knowlege...you're a good teacher

[Kwanza]

I don't know about moving the slave cylinder. It's the thing that pushes the clutch fork... which pushes the throw-out bearing, which pushes the clutch pressure plate. I find it difficult to imagine moving the slave cylinder without appropriately modifying the clutch fork... but who knows. I've never tried it... so I can't say... but what I will say is, it'll be a tight squeeze.

As for power steering, you won't be able to use the SR5 power steering stuff. The pullies are different between the 4AC and 4AG along with mounting points, so the SR5 stuff is pretty much useless. You'll want to get the GTS powersteering pump, bracket/tensioner, and lines/resivoir. If your silvetop comes with a powersteering pump/brackets, you might be able to adapt it to work. The SR5 also runs power steering lines opposite of the GTS, so that's why you'll need the GTS lines and resivoir. It's also been said by the AE86 community that the Silvetop crank pulley won't work with the GTS power steering set-up... but from my experience... it does work. There are minor differences with the pullies, but for the most part, if you get correctly sized belts, they should work.

[freakenidiot]

sorry to thread-jack but what if you have a manual steering rack? would there be any issues if you went from 4ac -> 4age 16v or 20v in that case?

[micro214_kp61]

Originally Posted by freakenidiot

sorry to thread-jack but what if you have a manual steering rack? would there be any issues if you went from 4ac -> 4age 16v or 20v in that case?

afaik, there shouldn't be any issue at all if you're still going manual steering. less headache actually.

Kwanza.. what kind of belt are you using. i'm thinking of swapping my starlet steering rack and pinion to a powersteering set up from an AE86. do you have a part number for the belt? thanks!

[etxxz]

Oh damm...i'll have to deeply look into the tranny and power steering...the swap will become useless to me if i dont have powersteering. The engine does come with the p/s pump. You're saying if i move the resevoir (new on the other side) i can use the same everything for the p/s? still needing new lines as well huh...

the engine comes even with the belts attached ex. the one for the fan. Lets see what my mech says tomorow. thx, i'll keep you'll posted

[Kwanza]

Originally Posted by micro214_kp61

Kwanza.. what kind of belt are you using. i'm thinking of swapping my starlet steering rack and pinion to a powersteering set up from an AE86. do you have a part number for the belt? thanks!

I don't actually... it never occured to me to get a part number... I basically had the old AE86 belt, took it into the auto parts store, and said "I need something slightly longer, bout 1-1.5 inches..." BTW, I ran the AE86 p/s pump, bracket and tensioner, which are 3 rib pullies with the 20V crank pulley, which has 4 ribs... so it wasn't perfect... but it worked without any problems during the time I had it. Another trick you can do... measure the size with some string... then bring it in, ask for the appropriate serpentine belt.

[micro214_kp61]

Originally Posted by Kwanza

Another trick you can do... measure the size with some string... then bring it in, ask for the appropriate serpentine belt.

there's an idea.. i'll try that. thanks!

[etxxz]

my engine is "delayed" because the company doesn't have the ECU (non-working) so they're waiting for a truck on monday

I took a laptop and showed the MECHANIC all the pics, tips, instructions, parts, procceses, time, etc...and he's cool with it. He doesnt wanna get my 4AC off untill the 20V is here. I can live withought PS untill i make some more green . That's why i have my beast 3.2TL for.

My friend is inclined towards this swap but has only $700 left. so he wants to know if rebuilding a 180,000engine is worth it? he's worried about compression leaks because of the old worn out engine.

BTW does anyone know the specs of a 4AC? (hp?) i'll try searching

Enjoy the weekend fellas

[freakenidiot]

Originally Posted by etxxz

BTW does anyone know the specs of a 4AC? (hp?) i'll try searching

70 Get ready to scratch out drifter if you do a rebuild


age takes a toll, so it's less than 70 now.

[etxxz]

woah...so weak!

the rebuild isn't for me, i'm going 20v. But my friend says his sr5 is driftable...a GTS has 130hp?


Kawanza what's gonna happen with the power steering? can the sys work with the 20v's p/s pump? hopefully me mech can make it all work

[Red_85_AE86]

Originally Posted by etxxz

woah...so weak!

says his sr5 is driftable...a GTS has 130hp?

Red Lettered 4AGE motors that had AFM sensors were 112hp .... same motors in Europe and Japan had the MAP sensor and pulled 130hp.

Plus there is the later blue lettered motors that had higher compression that pulled 140hp

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by Red_85_AE86

Red Lettered 4AGE motors that had AFM sensors were 112hp .... same motors in Europe and Japan had the MAP sensor and pulled 130hp.

Plus there is the later blue lettered motors that had higher compression that pulled 140hp

no..... you're pretty off there......

in the states we got 3 versions of the 4ag..... early model bigport with blue lettering, later model bigport with red and black lettering, smallport with red and black lettering (has oil drainback and different spark plug valley cover... for visual differences right off the bat)

bigports all have TVIS, smallport doesn't

112hp was for the early bigport 3 rib... had smaller crank journals - some have said they are better to build for n/a because of the lighter internals.... block is a 3 rib block, so it's weaker than the later ones

115hp was for the later bigport 7 rib.... had the same crank as the smallport and gze's....(42mm journal)..... these are better for boost as *generally* the internals are stronger and can be swapped for gze parts.... cams were ever so slightly smaller than the early model, but the injectors were larger (hence the 3hp)

130hp was for the smallport 7 rib..... same internal issues as the late bigport.... the smallport head design is much different... it's debateable either way which head is better for boost, but the higher compression has nothing to do with the head... the pistons in the smallport are of a higher CR

there might be like ~5hp (less than 5% gain) for having a map setup from stock.... however, map setups are much easier to modify which is the appeal of them. Yes, i have experience with these engine.... my 86 mr2 (sold) had a JDM 3 rib bigport.... my 87 mr2 had a 7 rib bigport (but c50 tranny... explain that one)... now has ae101 4agze and US e51 tranny.... my ae92 had a 4afe and now has a smallport.....