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Old 04-25-2005, 12:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question doing a swap

I posted this in the general discussion section to get maximum exposure but:


OK here's the story: I've got a 89 Corolla GTS (AE92, obviously) and I'm swapping in a silvertop 20v from an AE101, I'm pretty sure it is from a '91.
I've got the motor, tranny, and ECU. What else should I need to make this swap happen. I know I need a wire harness, I found a couple of places that sell them but they are like $400+ and I can't afford that yet. But I wanted to know what else I needed because I can buy that stuff (or at least find where I can get it from) for now until I can get the harness. I want to be able to have this motor swap done by the end of the summer. I hate having the motor just sit there....it needs to be brought to life.

You know what I'm talking about....it's time to feed some speed to the ride and get my project off the damn ground.

What am I looking for? AFM? Ignition system? What is different between the two that I'll need to find to get the 20v working?


*edit*

I know others have asked this before but I can't find any damn info on it...so if you guys can help, please do!!!!!! And have some pity on me.....I've had this motor since last october and have been going crazy trying to figure it out......
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Old 04-25-2005, 02:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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depends on what transmission you want to use.... if you use the tranny that came with the motor you need to make sure your axles will work with it....

on the harness, some key & more "rare" stuff you will need:
distributor & plugs
ignitor & coil
4 wire o2 sensor (can be found from a mid 90's v6 4 runner)
air flow meter
injectors & connectors

none of the parts you have on your current setup will be of use

i would suggest you go with an aftermarket stand alone..... i'm helping a friend do a 20V... who has a full harness except for one plug he "accidently" threw out so i talked him into going with Megasquirt.... we're waiting for the kit... once the ecu is built, it will only be a matter of days for the car to be running (which is good since he's been trying to wire his 20V for months now)..... Megasquirt is much simpler to wire up, much more effective at running the motor, and doesn't need the special 20V parts
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Old 04-25-2005, 04:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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how much does a megasquirt kit could cost?
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Old 04-25-2005, 04:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakoil
how much does a megasquirt kit could cost?
Yes how much? And by going with the megasquirt, I won't need most of the stuff I'm looking for? Like what? What does the megasquirt system cut out from what I need?

I'll need to find megasquirt somewhere on the net and see what it's all about.

You mentioned which tranny to use....the one that came with it or the one in there already, correct? But if I use the one in there (the stock one) will it be able to handle the motor? Will the motor even work with the stock tranny? That would be marvelous if it does.....one less thing to worry about.


Thanks toyotaspeed.

Oh and are there any other stand alones worth looking into?
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Last edited by VladImpaler; 04-25-2005 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 04-25-2005, 05:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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megasquirt IS a standalone..... it's a system you BUILD by hand.... i have my 87 mr2 with an ae101 4agze running on it

megasquirt mainly is a fuel controller for fuel injection..... it is MAP based.... it has a volumetric efficiency input table on it which you set values for, and then it will also change fuel output percentages based on:

acceleration
deceleration
coolant temp
air temp
o2 reading
map reading
rpm

ignition side.... there are many different choices you can make. The easiest and cheapest is to use an early 90's ford EDIS4 ignition setup. It uses a toothed wheel (which you have welded & balanced to your crank pulley) and a hollifax sensor (which you need to make a mounting for on the engine). This setup is also completely controllable.... you can change settings for advance and retard timing via any computer. Software is free.

to buy (in my opinion the best place to get it):
www.glensgarage.com

info:
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
support board:
http://www.msefi.com/

i opted for the entire kit with casing and the relay board with case... with shipping it came to $216... i then had to buy a laptop (for tuning), which i got on ebay for ~$200 (but i can use for more than just this)... and then needed to buy some bulk wire, a serial to usb adapter and a 15 foot usb cable ($50 together).... ignition stuff i got at a junkyard for around $20, and it cost me $30 to have the trigger wheel mounted and balanced on my pulley...

INCLUDING the laptop, the entire setup was about $516..... mind you, in an ae92 you wouldn't need that long of a USB cable, and if you already have a laptop (and if it has a 9 pin serial input) then you wouldn't need to buy those either..... it could be as little as $300 or less depending on what ignition stuff you use.....

i'll post some more detail pics (as many of them i have lost since my other computer crapped out on me, but i was able to salvage some, but they are on my laptop in the mr2.... and i'm too lazy to go out there & get it).

For ignition you would need (if you go EDIS): the trigger wheel, hollifax sensor & connector, coilpacks from one of the following: JDM 4agze, 7mgte, DSM (that uses DLI), the escort (they're ugly).... not sure what else would work, but those are all proven to work. Wiring for this ignition setup is the following: 2 shielded wires running from hollifax sensor to MS ecu, 2 shielded wires running from MS ecu to edis4 controller, postive/negative/igniton positive run to edis4 controller, the 2 negative outputs to the coilpacks, and an ignition positive to the coilpacks (yes, that's IT). All advance/retarding is done on a laptop/computer

For wiring in the injectors, for a 4 cylinder, you run 2 negatives (1 negative goes to injectors on 1 & 3 cylinders, then 2nd negative goes to injectors on 2 & 4 cylinders). Wire in your TPS (directions online how to find which are which wires), send wiring from coolant and air temp sensors to the relay board, positive wires to the injectors from relay board, single wire from the o2 sensor to the relay board. Then postive, negative, and ignition positive wires to the relay board. Off the top of my head that's all i can think of.... there literally are like 13 wires that control the entire setup... it IS that simple.

You keep the wiring for other sensors (you can use your stock harness) that give readouts to the dash (like coolant temp, oil pressure, voltage, speedometer), the only one that gets affected is a tachometer.... you can either use an MSD unit that takes the 2 negative coil wires and converts it to a single negative wire (like most tachs work on), you can build your own for about $10, or we are researching if one of the unused wires on the EDIS4 is a single tach output.

Also, since the 20V has vvt, there are people who have figured out how to control the vvt via an rpm switch output you can setup in MS.... i'll see how that goes on my friends mr2. Right now we just need to concentrate on getting it built, getting all the toyota crap out of the engine bay, and getting it to start.

Toyota stuff you WILL NOT NEED, be it from the 20V or whatever:
afm
ignitor
distributor (you can just fill the hole with a freeze plug)
map sensor (if that engine uses one, in your case no)
ecu
coil
injector resistor pack
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Old 04-25-2005, 05:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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couple pictures i DO have on hand (not too technical specific):

fuzzy picture of the laptop.... shows rpm, throttle percentage (tps), MAP reading, manifold air temp, and injector 1 & 2 outputs for pulsewidth and duty cycle... this is a screen shot of MEGATUNE 2.2... there are other programs and you can actually get much more gauges on a screen with other software




to prove it IS driveable:

was at an mr2 meet.... completely untuned and having problems (a wire came loose) but was still faster than the mr2's that were factory 4agze cars... even faster than the ones with intercooler and pulley upgrades.... i was as fast if not faster than the mk2 turbo's that were there (depending on the car, lol)
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Toyotaspeed, YOU'RE THE MAN DUDE!!!!!!!!!

I know Megasquirt is a stand alone...I was asking if there were any others worth checking out. I don't know much about them and want to get a few different options so I can learn faster. Unless MS is the best choice for me.


All this because of an oil leak too....my car right now is leaking SO much oil I have to fill it up daily...but I'm fixing it tonight because I know where the leak is....btu it's got me motivated to get the 20v up and running.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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With all due respect ToyotaSpeed90 but that is one horrible wiring job in the engine bay of your MR2. I would recommend you invest in some split loom and zip ties...
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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One other question...you mentioned the tranny....will the stock AE92 (remember its a GTS) 5-speed work with a silvertop 20v

Xenon, at least he has his wired....more than I can say for myself.....but to make you feel better I'll use zip ties to the point of overkill


*edit*

Do you think it is harder to go with the stand alone or try to use the stock 20v ECU and get the wire harness and parts.....probably the stand alone since I don't have to worry about finding as many of the parts I'll need
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Last edited by VladImpaler; 04-26-2005 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon
With all due respect ToyotaSpeed90 but that is one horrible wiring job in the engine bay of your MR2. I would recommend you invest in some split loom and zip ties...
that was a picture i took within a week of getting it running...... the wiring is all loomed up now

stock tranny will work with the 20V
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Old 04-26-2005, 06:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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some pictures i just took for you guys:





the extent of wiring on ecu side:




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Old 04-27-2005, 12:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Huge!!!!!!!!!! Thanks brother.....I am soo excited.....I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve. This makes my life and project SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier.....

The funny thing is my friend Chris was saying "go with a stand alone" for months....but I never paid him no nevermind because well he knows less than I do about this stuff....God I owe him $20 now because he was right....dammit...oh well...the money I'm saving by going stand alone will more than cover a $20 loss.

Hell, you said total this came to about $520 for everything you needed.....I found ONLY the wire harness for $475....then add in all the other crap I would've had to try to find and buy and I'm at something like $1000-1500....depending on what I needed.
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