I am going to build and install my own roll cage from scratch. I am going to use 1 1/2 inch black iron, cut and welded. I am not planing on installing door bars, but everything else. Has anyone done this in th AE? Are there places I can find designs, or will I have to design it myself? I have checked club4, and found little things but nothing really interesting or helpfull. If no one has info than I will keep things posted.
Ciao
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There are those who do things, and those who take credit... The trick is to be in the first group, there is a lot less compitition.
you're gonna need one that was designed, I don't think you can design it yourself. The cages are made to certain specs for a reason.. They ain't just metal bars in a car..
Anyways, try lookin for those bolt in cages. if you don't want to use them, atleast you can get the design from them =D
Yeah, your gonna need to find some specs or something on how to make it. I built some rool cages for some project race cars in High school. We did some measuring and alot of eye balling and they looked like crap.
No not solid iron. A solid iron cage would weigh like 500lbs, Black iron, 1.5" diametre at .120" side wall thickness. Its what is used for plumbing aplications.
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There are those who do things, and those who take credit... The trick is to be in the first group, there is a lot less compitition.
No not solid iron. A solid iron cage would weigh like 500lbs, Black iron, 1.5" diametre at .120" side wall thickness. Its what is used for plumbing aplications.
brent seriously think about this before you go ahead with it.
1) will you ever plan on entering this car in a solo 1 or 2 class or any other scca event. if so, there rules are very specific with regards to cages. hte wrong design, the wrong material and the wrong size of tubing and you will not be allowed to enter.
2) it will be welded in so any thing which requires you to take out the cage is gonna be a bitch.
3) i think you'd want to use mild steel as oppose to black iron. generally, you need to use 2" DMT(???) tubing thats 0.095 gauge. black iron is way too heavy and the sidewalls are very thick.
4) if your welds aren't strong, your cage will collapse. which is exponentially worse than a crushed roof if you ever get into a crash.
i would suggest researching more because this is quite a large task unfortunately with irreversible consequences.
I have done some research on the subject and this is what I have found. Any car under 3500lbs, needs no more than 1.75" x .120" DOM, or ERW which is a tad larger .25" than what I have priced, thorugh guys at work for $1.60 per foot, the 2" x .120" is for car's exceeding the 3500lb mark. I have not planed on entering any scca event, but I did not know what you stated. I am gutting the car's interior except the dash and front seats, and thought that a cage would..
a) stiff'n the car's rigidness (which I was told on club4)
B) add to (and I know I will get harassed for this) the look of my car.
and yes your right about the mild steel, irons a bit heavy.
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There are those who do things, and those who take credit... The trick is to be in the first group, there is a lot less compitition.
thats right DOM and EWR. both which come in mild steel and chro-mo.
it does stiffen the car greatly...although i've heard stories of it being too stiff.
gutting your car? be carefull, or you'll end up like me. an ae86 rendered completely useless for the street.
mines gutted out completely...no heater, no air, no radio, no vent controls....just you, the dash and the shifter.
a good thing to do once you've guttend your car is to get it corner balanced. cuz you've just disrupted the weight distribution of the vehicle which in turn will upset the handling.
i was thinking of doing my own cage also...but i decided, for $600 you get a professional job done by someone who KNOWS how to design it for safety and rigidness. thats a pretty damn good deal.
Yes but for me, someone who lives on his own, (yes own, no more lady) $600 right now is a tad bit much. I can put together material for under 150... plus I am a rather good welder, Mig and arc, so I figured what better way to lengthen the love afair with my car than with some plastic surgery.
I am only gutting the carpet, rear seats, and sides panels. I have seen your AE and that is a bit much. Although I like your fuel cell.... where did you get it?
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There are those who do things, and those who take credit... The trick is to be in the first group, there is a lot less compitition.
it does stiffen the car greatly...although i've heard stories of it being too stiff.
I've heard some 86 guys talk about having a chassis that is too stiff, how is that possible? Engineers do as much as they can to enhance structural and torional rigidity to make a strong flex-free chassis. Can anybody explain this?
I think chasis and suspension has to work in harmony. If the suspension is too stiff and the chasis is too soft, then the chasis will do more flexing than the spring/shocks compressing which is no good. If the chasis is too stiff for the suspension, the may put too much stress on the joints between the suspension and the chasis (speculating). I guess other things to consider is that a chasis too stiff may not to very comfortable and things like windshield may not be able to take the abuse of constant vibration.
I have not planed on entering any scca event, but I did not know what you stated.
Regardless if you plan on racing or not, you should consider fabricating the cage to meet the minimum regulations (number of weld-in points, tubing diameter, material type, etc.) of a sanctioning race body like C.A.R.S. (Canadian Association of Rally Sport). Even if you don't plan on racing, these roll cage standards are good for a minimum guideline for yourself. It will also appeal to racers if you want to sell your car in the future.
BTW: My friend Paul designed the full roll cage for his MR2 rally car himself and had it built for about 800$ (keep in mind there's less material to use in a MR2 roll cage).
well i think it has to do with where the forces are being directed in the unibody.. if you think about it, the kinds of forces a car's unibody experiences are very complex
engineers design the unibody in a very specific way, everything is related to everything else..
what i mean is if you randomly start making parts of the unibody stiffer, you will change the way the unibody directs forces.. because you stiffened one part, maybe another part of the body will now take more force than it was originally intended to
i hope that makes sense..
__________________ mr sinister
1987 ae86 - black hatch
--- GTP Light Tune SPL Super Lace Edition
2001 VW GTI 1.8T
--- "Racing" pedals. my website
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