Swapping 3s-GTE into Corolla All-trac

[QuadCamSix]

I am about to purchase an All-Trac Corolla wagon with the intent of building a soccer mom looking sleeper. I am not very familiar with the wagon so, I have lots of questions.



First a little background. I have successfully competed numerous swaps in the past and as you can tell from the link in my siggy i am accustomed to doing unusual work.



I currently have a Gen I 3S-GTE out of an alltrac. I also have the transmission ECU and numerous other components from a celica as well as most of the parts from my US Gen II 3S-GTE that I pulled from my MR2.



So, here are my questions.

First, if I use the stock rear end how much torque will it take before I destroy the differential. Have any of you been down this road and put a lot of power through this rear end?



Second, what is the transaxle model number? Is this the same transaxle that was used in the very early celicas? If not, how much power will it hold before flying appart? Im not asking about the clutch here, im asking about the internals, gears and differential.



Third, If the transaxle is different does anyone know if the rear drive shaft output is in a different place or not?



Finally, What are the common problems with these cars. Basically im wondering what I will need to replace right away before I put the car on the road. Do they have bad ball joints like some of the celicas and MR2's? Do the wheel bearings tend to go bad?



Any additional info that would help me with my new sleeper project would be most appreciated.



Thanks
Jim

[drift_ae86_91]

well do you know what engine came in that corolla 4wd, you could get a 4wd 4 door instead though, but if it was 4af like the fwd, a 4age on 4agze would be ideal (A series enigne, bolts too any other a series engine's tranny), but you could probably just plop in the celica all trac tranny and motor instead and push 250-300+ hp with some good mods.

[QuadCamSix]

Originally Posted by drift_ae86_91

you could probably just plop in the celica all trac tranny and motor instead and push 250-300+ hp with some good mods.

Thats the plan if the transmission wont bolt up. Problem is, I will need ot find a rear diff with the same final drive as the celica if I do change out the transmission. I could also have a ring gear machined to fit into the rear end to correct that but that will be a PITA. Also, I have heard from a reliable source that the output shaft is in a slightly different location for the corolla transmission. If its off by enough, that could mean a lot of cutting and welding (something I would like to avoid).

I have a supra A-spec CT-26 with the ceramic turbine that will bolt up to the Gen I with its single entry manifold. With that turbo the target should be 300hp and a total weight of around 2400 lbs for the car. Not bad for a wagon .

[drift_ae86_91]

what engine comes in that thing from the factory??

[QuadCamSix]

Im looking at two chassis both with the 4A-FE engines 1.6L aroud 1988 - 1990 is what im shooting for.

[SpeedballTrix]

Does this mean The Beast is done?
Cuz on your site there seems to be alot to do still.

[REN69]

First of all.. nothing will bolt up on the Corolla, you're basically looking at custom mounts for the motor and transmission.. second the original shafts on the 4WD Corollas are totally different from the ones in a Celica ALL-TRAC or GT4 so no, they probably won't even bolt up and if they did.. remember the 4AFE only produces 105hp as opposed to 200-250hp on a 3SGTE

Another thing.. if you were to go to a Celica forum and ask the infamous "Can I convert my Celica GTS to a GT4" question you would get bashed for being a noob.. what do you think they'll do to you if you asked "Can I convert my Corolla AWD to a Celica GT4" I wouldn't wanna be there.. If you can't convert a Celica GTS to a GT4 without spending an enormous amount of money, what makes you think a Corolla would be an easier candidate. The problem is that the Celica GT4 was created with Rally driving in mind, meaning the car has been structurally strengthened and it reality is a totally different beast from a Celica GTS. you would have to perform a lot of chassis strengthening, not only that but you would probably have to upgrade the whole suspension on the car to the one from the GT4/ALL-TRAC so in the end you would spend so much money that it be easier and cheaper if you had just looked for a Celica GT4 and bought that.

I'm not discouraging you, I'm just informing you that it won't be easy without tons of money, parts and time.

[Tercel GTS]

You'd need this I think, it went for $154.03 plus shipping. Picture links to auction.


I'd doubt that would fit into a corolla without a lot of work as Ren said.

[QuadCamSix]

Thanks for the input guys.

Yes, I know its a lot of work. I was looking for someone who had done the swap before to kinda give me a heads up on what to expect and to see if the project is worth doing. I still think it would be hillarious. Since I have most of the expensive stuff here already I figured it would be a fun job. The most easy plan would be to make an adapter plate and machine the stock transmission bellhousing. Im concerned that the motor will just destroy the stock transmission so im considering using the celica transmission I have. Mounts wouldent be a problem but getting the cusom drive shafts made would be expensive. Thats why I was asking how strong the stock transmission is. I was also considering converting the car to RWD only and mouting the engine longitude wise. Again that would be a LOT of work because I would need to fabricate a tunnel.

If I were to swap the transmissions, I dont really think I would need the celica rear end. As long as I get the final drive the same in the transaxel and the rear end it should be fine. Ill have to figure out what the ratio is in the stock rear diff and go from there.

SpeedBallTrix The body is DONE with the exception of the trunk. The motor is running VERY strong check it out http://bulldog.unca.edu/~jmpersek/turbotest.WMV

[SpeedballTrix]

Wow, that sounds freakin awesome.

Sorry to go off-topic =P

[VooDoo]

you can swap in the 3SGTE but it might be better to convert the car to an FF (instead of an FR). 3SGTE swaps has been and is still being done on corollas.

[drift_ae86_91]

you can swap in the 3SGTE but it might be better to convert the car to an FF (instead of an FR). 3SGTE swaps has been and is still being done on corollas

Hell yeah, PJ Bonafacio had a 3sgte in his levin convert hb, done by dan's toy or something like that. Couldn't you toss in 4age though, I'm under the impresion that any A series engines tranny will bolt to any other A series engine, my dad and I were talking bout 81 tercels and the 4wd 86 tercels putting 4age in there, perfect Ice Racer

[REN69]

Yep.. FWD is not a problem as you only have to do the motor, then source out a FWD transmission. Most likely one from a 3SGE, 5SFE, etc.. then upgrade the clutch to take on the extra power. AWD is a different ballpark, and like I said its not gonna be cheap if you don't have all the parts.

[VooDoo]

just to add... i've see a couple of 3SGTE corollas back here... hands down they're very powerful cars. but the problem is getting the power to the pavement. all they get is wheelspin... imaging shifing to 2nd gear at only 4000rpm and you still smoke the tires. and that's at stock boost with 205/45/16 tires already.

[Tercel GTS]

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