Hi, my wife and I recently purchased a new 2005 Corolla LE. After we took it home, we started noticing some quality control problems, the most obvious of which is that the driver's door and dashboard do not quite line up correctly. The horizontal line diving the upper/lower portions of the dashboard is about 1/4 inch lower than the same line on the driver's door. The passenger's door, on the other hand, lines up correctly, which makes me nervous about some underlying problem. (Before our purchase, we never thought to look for such defects in a Toyota. We never would have purchased this particular car if we had noticed the problem beforehand.)
I've taken it back to the dealership, and they examined the car. Initially, they thought that they could fix the problem, but when I came to pick it up they very politely told me to forget about it. After much prodding for information, I was told:
1. It's a manufacturing defect in the car.
2. They claim it's a rare defect.
3. There's nothing that they can do to fix it.
4. It's minor, strictly cosmetic, and "no one else will probably see it".
They _were_ able to fix the trunk lid, which was misaligned right-to-left. There's also some defect in the surface of the driver's door pillar which is causing "ripples" in the plastic trim. They claimed that there was nothing they could do about that problem as well since it was in the metal.
When I got home from the dealership yesterday, I called the Toyota "Customer Experience Center" and opened up a Case Reference Number with them since it was obvious that the dealerhsip felt that I should just ignore these problems. Toyota was very pleasant to deal with and seemed to be concerned, but, of course, they're trained to sound that way. I guess I'll find out more about how they really feel in the coming weeks/months. I'm supposed to hear from the dealership's Customer Relations Manager in a few days.
Anyway, I've got some questions for anyone out there who might be able to help me:
- Am I overreacting to these defects? Should I expect such defects in a "mere" $15,000 car? (Our old 1995 Corolla didn't seem to have problems like this, which is why we bought this one!) I'm asking this question with an open mind.
- Is this dashboard alignment problem really as rare as the dealership is claiming? Has anyone else seen it on their car?
- Are the dashboard and door pillar defects really just minor cosmetic issues or do they point to some underlying manufacturing problem with the car that will manifest itself in other ways in the future?
- Would these defects affect the resale value of the car? Would they lead someone with a sharper eye than mine to think that it had been in an accident?
- Anyone who has dealt with Toyota's customer complaint escalation process and has some advice in how to deal with Toyota and/or their dealerships, please share your experience.
Thanks, in advance, to anyone with information that might be of assistance!
Toyota seems to deny such claims. Are you aware of the starting problems that '05s have? Almost no one has got the problem fixed in the dealer. anyway, I dont notice the dashbord alignment problem that you have mentioned, but I do nitice some fit and finish problems near center console, radio, and glove box. Corollas do seem to have inconsistent finish. My trunk alignment is fine, but I do notice the ripple affects near the bottom of the car, which I believe is the anti-chipping tape included in the "all-weather guard package". I would say dashboard misalignment is leaning towards a minor defect, since it would not affect the drivability or safety of the vehicle, although it sure is annoying to look at. I dont think the defects would affect the resale value of the car, and even if I was to discern such problems, I would not suspect an accident.
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'05 Corolla LE Silver Streak Mica
I would actually take it more seriously than that. Only reason I say that is because you know there are engineers and then there area TOYOTA ENGINEERS!!!
And believe me when I say that regardless of whether it's on the car's metal side......(fitting tolerances).......or the interior plastics' side.......(plastics molds).......either side would be upset about such loose tolerances on a 2005 Toyota!! (Yes, even a Corolla).
Car makers have gotten quite good at making car parts align VERY well on their frames/unibodies since the days of that old Altima commercial with the marble running all up & down the seams.
Moldmakers for the plastic interiors are also a rare breed. They live in the world of .00005 so with those 2 sets of folks working in kahootz to make things match up come assembly time, I'd be rather pissed (personally) if I had acquired the vehicle you're talking about. They'd be seein' me at the door first thing in the morning & not leaving 'til somebody from Toyota called me on one of their phones to let me know they're going to do something about it!!
That's what happens when you don't make Toyotas in Japan and you chose to make them in North america where the suppliers are basically the same crappy suppliers for GM, Ford and Chrysler.
Toyota seems to deny such claims. Are you aware of the starting problems that '05s have? Almost no one has got the problem fixed in the dealer. anyway, I dont notice the dashbord alignment problem that you have mentioned, but I do nitice some fit and finish problems near center console, radio, and glove box. Corollas do seem to have inconsistent finish. My trunk alignment is fine, but I do notice the ripple affects near the bottom of the car, which I believe is the anti-chipping tape included in the "all-weather guard package". I would say dashboard misalignment is leaning towards a minor defect, since it would not affect the drivability or safety of the vehicle, although it sure is annoying to look at. I dont think the defects would affect the resale value of the car, and even if I was to discern such problems, I would not suspect an accident.
I guess I should be glad that our '05 Corolla hasn't had any starting problems at all in 2000+ miles so far. (Knock on fake wood interior trim.) I did read one of the the threads on that topic and it sounds like a nightmare compared with the problems with my car. It also seems that Toyota has a "deny everything" attitude when it comes to possible design/manufacturing problems.
This dashboard alignment thing really does annoy me (as does some persistent creaking plastic in the interior when going over rough pavement). I'm going to have to decide how much I'm willing to put up with from Toyota and the dealership vs. just learning to live with it. I seriously doubt that Toyota would even consider replacing a car for a slightly misaligned/warped/whatever dashboard. I guess they might replace the dashboard assembly if I screamed enough about it, but I don't know if I'd trust the local dealership mechanics with a task like that.
But, still, it's useful to let Toyota know that their U.S. assembly plant, at least, is failing to deliver a product that meets what people have come to expect from Toyota. If Toyota is a well-run company they will turn it around before their reputation goes the way of Chrysler (which, BTW, makes pretty decent cars these days from what I hear, not that I would ever buy one after my Dodge Omni experiences in the 1980's).
I will update this thread as my case with Toyota progresses in the hope that the information will be of use to someone else, if not me.
It looks like I'm quickly running into a brick wall with Toyota when it comes to the dashboard alignment. After my call to Toyota, the dealership agreed to look at it again and work with Toyota to find a fix. The service advisor (a different person from before) immediately saw the problem and even pointed out a slight left-to-right alignment problem with the dash that I hadn't noticed before. She started the day hopeful that she'd be able to get it all lined up.
Toyota basically told the service advisor that there are no adjustments for the dashboard alignment, and Toyota informed her that they absolutely, positively, will NOT authorize replacing a dashboard for a 1/4" alignment problem with the door. They went on to tell her that Corollas were "low end cars" and you couldn't expect everything to line up correctly! They suggested that she look at other Corollas on the lot to compare the dashboard alignment with mine. Sure enough, others have similar (though not always identical) assembly problems. All of the Corollas on their lot come from the California factory. My service advisor was very apologetic, but there really isn't anything she can do about it without authorization. She even went on to say that the Corollas were obviously not of as high quality as they used to be since she never used to see problems like this. She also suggested that I keep complaining to Toyota so they can will know about and fix these issues, but, really, is it my job to help Toyota fix their internal corporate problems?
On the bright side, Toyota will replace the plastic panels on the door pillar that are causing the irritating rattling and squeaking. A small victory. (And costs Toyota next to nothing, of course.)
So, I guess the moral of this story is that Toyota has really stopped giving a rat's behind about "fit and finish" in their cars, or maybe just their "low end cars" like Corollas. Perhaps the MBAs have taken over and have figured out they can save $200 per Corolla if they just fire those fussy QA engineers.
Yet another reason Hyundai/Kia are gonna keep takin' more & more market share!! (Watch your butts, Toyota)
In a related story....................
I always look at Corollas/Prizms now whenever I'm near one. Parked next to a brand spankin' new blue CE yesterday at the store. Looked at my Prizm......($1800).......and looked at that CE......(probably $15K)......and smiled when I noticed that my trunk alignment......(on my '95 that's been in *at least* one accident).....is actually better than on the '05.
Even the hoods were really close. I'd give the hood to the '05 as it was really pretty straight.....(though still not perfect)......but in the trunk dept., mine was definitely straighter.
Made me scratch my head & think to myself........."What would I do if I had purchased that CE?". I'd definitely not be happy 'cuz that stuff *sticks* w/ me too much. An $1800 used car, no sweat.........a $15K *new* car......(I don't care how 'low-end' they wanna call it).........NO WAY!!!!
At this point, I honestly think I'd go w/ a Hyundai or Kia just to reward the company that's working harder to get our biz!!! My .02!
Yet another reason Hyundai/Kia are gonna keep takin' more & more market share!! (Watch your butts, Toyota)
In a related story....................
I always look at Corollas/Prizms now whenever I'm near one. Parked next to a brand spankin' new blue CE yesterday at the store. Looked at my Prizm......($1800).......and looked at that CE......(probably $15K)......and smiled when I noticed that my trunk alignment......(on my '95 that's been in *at least* one accident).....is actually better than on the '05.
Even the hoods were really close. I'd give the hood to the '05 as it was really pretty straight.....(though still not perfect)......but in the trunk dept., mine was definitely straighter.
Made me scratch my head & think to myself........."What would I do if I had purchased that CE?". I'd definitely not be happy 'cuz that stuff *sticks* w/ me too much. An $1800 used car, no sweat.........a $15K *new* car......(I don't care how 'low-end' they wanna call it).........NO WAY!!!!
At this point, I honestly think I'd go w/ a Hyundai or Kia just to reward the company that's working harder to get our biz!!! My .02!
Just for comparison, go look at some $30,000 cars/trucks.....same shit, different manufacturer/price point. I must say, though, that fit and finish in our Canadian-built (better built, perhaps ??? ) '05 S is every bit as good as in my '91 Tercel and in my '75 Celica ST....fwiw.
I agree there too. I think that it's all about the "people" doin' some of this stuff.
As I mentioned before, the engineers & mold makers for the metal/plastics we're talking about are waaaaaay too anal to let stuff be that sloppy, so I'd guess it's more to do with the "slappin' it together" portion of the car making process than the "design/engineering" end.
I just think that Nissan.....(at least USA)........should probably re-air their marble commercial like with the 1st gen Altima and then do the same test on a new Corolla & show the difference. (Then again, they may have gone to the pits too, for Fit & Finish??)
Just unacceptable, imho. When I saw that '05 CE, and how many seams were off that much......(the right seam of the trunk pieces was nearly TOUCHING!!!)........I just have to shake my head.
Suppose it's the same reason I bought my '98 Camry 2.2L instead of ES300......(but, oooooh I wanted an ES300 sooooo bad!!)........same car, but now I can boast of better MPG in a gas-crazy world 7 years later.........LOL!!
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) '05 S is every bit as good as in my '91 Tercel and in my '75 Celica ST....fwiw.
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