Celica GTS VS Eclipse GST

[BoostedCelica02]

I need some help! I just joined these forums as i previously used to post on celicaforums.com. I drive an 02 Celica GTS. I am running a T3/T4 Turbo setup with stainless steel tubular manifold, front mount intercooler, exhaust, intake, etc.. For suspension im running lowering springs, slicks, adjustable shocks. A couple days ago on the way back home on Prince William Parkway located in Woodbridge Virgina, i noticed a shiny red Eclipse GST kind of go by me with that loud bov sound. I thought he maybe wanted to race me or something but as the traffic light hit red..we both stopped next to each other. I started revving my engine to let him hear my blow off valve & he rolled down his windows and was like "dude are you serious, do you want to lose...you might as well just drive home safely". So I got pretty pissed at that and asked him lets go, he said not this light because of cops. So we both follwed each other at a local spot and had a talk. He wasnt dissing my car or anything, he was actually complimenting me on my setup and giving me suggestions on how to make it faster. This guy had alot of knowledge about cars and turbos in general. I felt like he was actually trying to help me with my car rather than bashing it. He also told me he was in the process of replacing his motor mounts because his rear one was almost broke but he was still willing to race with the problems he was having. He wanted to run for money $100..i tried to talk him down to $50 because i didnt have that much to spend if i lost..so he came down to $75. Anyways to make a long story short, he called a few people to set up the race and flag. I called my local buddys to come suppost me. We ran from a stop and a roll. The races lasted a 1/4 miles strecth. From a stop as I lined up..i launched my car and before i knew it, he was already 3 cars ahead of me on the launch, by 3rd gear he was about 9 cars ahead of me. I couldnt believe what i saw, i mean this thing was fast as hell. I mean he just plain whooped my ass.

From a 40 MPH Roll, 3 honks and i went, i heard his turbo scream right past me before i could even shift to 3rd gear, at 110 MPH he mustve been 10 cars ahead of me.

I dont understand, why even with my turbo setup, i couldnt hang closer to him? I was running 9 lbs of boost with all the supporting mods i listed. I am losing faith in my Celica...i dont know im thinking about selling it for eclipse or something. I mean that car was fast. I would suppose as fast as it was he was pushing somewhere around 450 horsepower to the wheels. If any of you locally know him, he drives a red 97-99 Eclipse GST with custom plates.

Can anyone offer any suggestions on what else i can do to my car to atleast hang closer to him?? Im totally lost and upset!

[lcarocha]

Originally Posted by BoostedCelica02

I drive an 02 Celica GTS. I am running a T3/T4 Turbo setup with stainless steel tubular manifold, front mount intercooler, exhaust, intake, etc..

Thats the problem with high compression engines like the 2ZZ, you have to run minimum boost which does not allow you to get all the power that you need or want from it. Lower compression pistons are a must if you want to make serious power with F/I.

If its any consolation, that guys is probably on his 6th tranny this year and probably wanted to race for many because he needs to save up for the next one.

[19Celi87]

Did you get a good look at his set up? I would guess he has a couple more pistons than you do. Maybe a touch of NOS? I don't know much about the Eclipse, but they did put out a boosted 6 not to long ago (I'm pretty sure). Bosses wife had to have it (new model, new car time). They trade in an 4NA (and you could have given him a head start had he been in that.) Late 90's Supra would have had trouble with her new one (Supra Heavy). Hell of an engine inprovement. Special factory order. A boosted six off the showroom floor would have no problem taking your 75 bucks let alone a modded one.
If YOU ever were to say to a dude:


Let's make it interesting...$100 bucks?
It would be because you know you already have won.

You boosted an NA set up. He did not I'll bet. ( I'm guessing)

[19Celi87]

Get your self a 93' All Trac. Stripp it. (AC and stuff). Get an interchangable exhaust boot (removable CAT). Tune the FUNK out of it...
Find him...beat him by half a car.

Then slow the fuck down. . . and remember. . . you are not your car.

[357wheelgunner]

I agree the 2zz is not the best turbo car, but you should beat 99% of all turbo eclipses, they are hella heavy and not many people actually know how to tune a car.

I also agree that the 2zz needs lower compression pistons.

I would not sweat it, there is always gonna be a faster car out there, no matter what you drive. My friend had a 70 Charger with a 6.8 liter hemi crate motor, he never lost a race with it for months until a Mitsu 3000gt handed him his ass. He could not believe it.

Good luck

[90celicaGT-S]

yea you will still beat any stock gst on the road. theres always faster cars out there. maybe you shouldve checked his car out a little more b4 u raced for money. duh.

[BoostedCelica02]

Originally Posted by 90celicaGT-S

yea you will still beat any stock gst on the road. theres always faster cars out there. maybe you shouldve checked his car out a little more b4 u raced for money. duh.

Some of you have your facts all wrong. There is no such thing as a factory boosted 6. He has an inline 4 4G63 turbocharged motor. For those that are claiming eclipses are heavy, yes the new body style is. His generation which is 95-99 weigh 2750 for 95-96 and 2800 for 97-99. I just talked to him yesterday and he was willing to show me what he has under the hood. Stock bottom end, stock head, he is on an evo III 16G turbo set at only 15 psi of boost. His car is dyno tuned at 23 psi of boost. He had a 3" turboback exhaust, injen intake, bov, super sidemount intercooler, upgraded injectors, fuel pump..etc.

Im not saying that his car is supperior than mine but you guys got to give him credit. At only 15 psi of boost he walked all over my ass. And the Evo III turbo isnt even that big of a turbo. To say i will beat 99% of all eclipses is completely idiotic and stupid. Yes maybe nonturbo ones but turbo? I guess that night answered my question pretty well. Ive been searching about DSM's the last couple of days and i have found so many running 8's and 9's. John shepherd (90 tsi awd) has the fastest stock chasis dsm which is running a 7.8 in the 1/4. This is coming from a celica owner..there motor is far superrior than ours. They will make more power than we will ever make. I want some good oppinions here that will help me make my car run better. It is not helping me much. Quit giving me false info only to run into another one underestimating it.

Back to the subject. Stock for stock when i ran a GST i got my ass handed to me but not this bad. The 3rd gens i dont worry about but its the 1st and 2nd gens with that 4g63 block that is some serious competition.

Im thinking about going with lowered compression pistons, get some better rods, as well as running a 50-75 shot of nitrous. Im going to be getting my car dyno tuned by spring so im hoping to make some good power gains. I think with some spray, some more boost, i will be able to stay a little closer.

[BoostedCelica02]

Originally Posted by 19Celi87

Get your self a 93' All Trac. Stripp it. (AC and stuff). Get an interchangable exhaust boot (removable CAT). Tune the FUNK out of it...
Find him...beat him by half a car.

Then slow the fuck down. . . and remember. . . you are not your car.

right..and this is gonna give me an extra 200 horses i need?

[BoostedCelica02]

Originally Posted by 357wheelgunner

My friend had a 70 Charger with a 6.8 liter hemi crate motor, he never lost a race with it for months until a Mitsu 3000gt handed him his ass. He could not believe it.

Good luck

I was thinking about getting a 70 charger from one of my uncles old body shops. It turned out the car needed plenty of work to get it running. Nice cars & definitely fast! The 3000GT he ran must have been a VR-4 TT. Those cars run low 13's stock. With basic bolt ons they will easily get into the low 12's and high 11's. Then from there they have a hard time getting anywhere lower because of how heavy they are.

Im thinking about maybe getting an Evo. Im not selling my celica GTS because of all the love i have for these nice cars but i just need something faster with more power stock and a better overall engine that has potential that can satisfy me. If i cant find an Evo, i wont mind picking up a nice 2nd gen eclipse or talon. I think what i have learned from turbocharging my celica will help me when i buy one of those other cars. As far as the celica, im going to get some lower compression pistons, better rods, turn that boost up a little more, have a 75 shot of spray, and tune the bitch up. Im going to see if that makes a big difference which im assuming it will. The Evo or eclipse or whatever could be my weekend car

[chrwof8217]

Keep your current celica dude, swap in an AWD 3sgte. Those cars rape most others with little mods. You are talikng about a 2600-2800 pound car with 200hp stock, awd format, and you can boost a stock 3sgte to nearly 300 at the wheels with little money and mods. Those &^%$# are quick. I own an mr2 that I am building a 3sgte for currently. Just my two pennies.

[3SGTE@daSpeedof]

sell your 7th gen buy a 5th gen alltrac. stock comes in at 2oohp, 200lbs tq. A few mods, for instance an atsracing turbo upgrade for 4000, and your sitting at 300+hp.
Car cost between 2500 and 10000 depending on the condition its in. 4000 for you turbo upgrade, and you walking on alot of cars.

[Pineapple]

Originally Posted by chrwof8217

Keep your current celica dude, swap in an AWD 3sgte. Those cars rape most others with little mods. You are talikng about a 2600-2800 pound car with 200hp stock, awd format, and you can boost a stock 3sgte to nearly 300 at the wheels with little money and mods. Those &^%$# are quick. I own an mr2 that I am building a 3sgte for currently. Just my two pennies.

AWD in the 02 GTS? You must be rich.

[Kevs Toy]

Ok, I just made a lengthy ass post and this fucking lame ass site lost it. Anyway, I'll try to emphasize my point. Don't feel bad about being beat by the dsm. That setup on a 2g fwd is good for close to 400 whp, I know as a guy around here had a very similar setup and dynoed close to that number. I had a big16g in my 1g awd and managed to run a 12.8 at 105 on pump gas. I was able to pull on a 99 gt with an 01 cobra swap and bolt ons that trapped at 109 from a roll, so its a good setup for a dsm. True, its a smaller turbo than your hybrid setup, but without you being able to crank the boost you're limited in extracting that turbo's power. I have no idea on the specs of your turbo so dont know where you'd expect to start seeing more impressive gains. A friend of mine has a 6th gen civic coupe with a b18c1 (gsr) swap and boosted with a 60 trim t3t4. It's on stock internals but finely tuned running 8 psi or so. He ran a 13.6 at 109 and he prob. weighs about 200-300 lbs less than your gts.

True, the 4g63 loves boost but that doesnt make it a better engine. Toyota makes much better and reliable stuff. The 2zz was just designed for NA purposes. Hell, you got a timing chain that hardly needs servicing while the Mitsu has a rubberband that breaks easily. I dont know how many times I hear of 4g63s with timing belts snapping before there specified service interval of 50k. The engines just dont hold up to racing for long. They dont like high rpms either. Both enginse are an interference design but the only time I really hear of gts owners having valvetrain issues is from selecting too low of a gear, while dsm guys get denied by their crappy trannies while speed shifting and think they're in gear and mesh the accelerator and boune off the rev limiter. Ive had this happen twice. First time I merely bent the valves. The second time the car ran like shit and I managed to limp it home before a valve dropped and left a nice hole in my #1 piston. I must've loosened a keeper when it bounced off the limiter.

Bottom line, mitus are junk. They're cheap and easy to modify (in the dsm case anyway) but hardly reliable. There's a saying a Supra owner told me. "Fast and cheap but unreliable. Cheap and reliable but not fast. And fast and reliable but not cheap. Pick one and forget the rest." Do yourself and stay away from the junk ass 4g63. A 3sgte is a far superior design if you want a boosted four cylinder. Most my friends with dsms got sick of the numerous problems inherent with them. Drivetrain issues, headgakets starting to leak when you get to a setup similiar to the one you raced, timing belt shit, and various other gremlines. It might seem tempting but stick to your Toyota. It's a much better designed car and I'm eager to see waht you do with it. Just do some more tuning or do internal work so you can see more boost and that dsm will be blowing kisses at your taillights.

[3SGTE@daSpeedof]

The 7th gens can only handle so much then they are just as prone as anyother car, they are not ment to be boosted, there are quite a few people who have blown there motor running turbos on 7th gens manly do to bad tuning, and miss shifting, for what your looking at spending if you put that in an alltrac, you would have one mean car, there are two alltrac's I've read about both in the 9's and 10's thats dropping 20g to 30g into it. most people settle for high 12's for low 13's in alltracs. And only when your looking to break 11's and 12s will you spend that kind of money. You will blow your motor quicker trying to boost your 7th gen, then you will turning up boost on a motor that was built to take it. my 02.cents check out alltrac.net, and gt4oc.uk I think it is for the right info. There are afew alltrac's pushing 300+hp

On a side note a swapped celica with a stock 3s boost turned up will do high to mid 13's depending on the driver in fwd. Now add an LSD tranny with some motor work, and your looking at high 11's.

If you really want to stick with the 7th gen I would suggest getting an lsd put in you won't go anywhere fast without traction. Lower compression pistions, emanage, better manfiold, larger fmic, valves, retainers, minor head work, cams, sleves, upgrading your fuel system cuse if you start to up the boost you will start running lean. Those would be the next things to address. Check out this site for some bolt on turbo kits http://www.c2power.com/products