Which engine and tranny? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Vrouv06 · 10-31-2006, 10:25 AM

Hey everyone. I'm new to this forum and am here for a friend of mine. I'm here because my friend has a 96 celica and is planning on making a power house out of it. I told him he's gotta swap the engine out because he's got a single cam engine and those things suck. So I'm wondering what DOHC engine will swap in to those without any heavy modding. Also he wants a 6 speed. So basically whats the right combo he should buy. We're planning on rebuilding the engine, turboing it, and just basically going all out on his car. All help is greatly appreciated. I don't know much about toyotas seeing as I'm a Mazda guy but I know quite a bit and am looking forward to this project

Tommy · 10-31-2006, 12:29 PM

no celica in recent years has had a SOHC engine. If you cant tell that without looking at the engine, maybe you should find someone else to help your friend.

back to the question, tell your friend to save up 10k and do a 3SGTE swap...or he could do the smart thing and sell the ST and buy a all-trac and be done with it, or just buy a 7th gen celica GTS and youll have 190hp and a 6spd from the factory.

btw, dont be raggin on SOHC engines, saying in a broad sweeping statement that they suck is just ignorant.

Luckynumber5 · 10-31-2006, 01:25 PM

He probably saw that it only has one cam pulley and assumed it was like a honda engine

Might as well throw some info in here,
You can swap several engines, 1mz-fe 3.0 v6, 3sgte turbo 2.0 4 cyl, 5vz-fe 3.4 v6, 2zz-ge expensive 4 cyl from the 2000+ gts

Wanting a 6 speed is cool and all, but its stupid. Its a ton of money and the only fwd 6 speed that will fit needs a lot of work unless you leave it on the 2zzge and drop that engine in with it(which is still a lot of work, and youll need to be careful with the diff, not saying it will break, but it can.

The v6s are a good swap for the money, the 5vz-fe has a supercharger kit out for it and it loves boost, or you can easily turbo that engine and make some serious power completly stock.

My opinion, if you really want to build a fast straight line car, stick with the engine it has in it, pull the engine and throw in build pistons rods and look into a metal head gasket that will fit.

This is the part people hate me for, if its automatic, keep it automatic and get a kit from IPT to rebuild it as well as a high stall TC and a valve body kit. This will be faster on a turbo 6th gen than a 5 or 6 speed will.

TubRog5 · 10-31-2006, 01:44 PM

Sounds like someone just blurted words out from anger.

Umm.. Well, first off. We need to know whether the car is an ST or GT. It was never stated. If its a GT. Then you can do a 3sgte head swap onto the 5sfe block and build yourself a frankenstein 5sgte. Since you wanna go all out. That would be the best all out project. I'm assuming you will be rebuilding both the block and head for your project. No 6 speed available for this project.

If your friend has an ST. Then you guys can do a 20v blacktop 4age head swap onto the 7afe block. A 6 speed manual is available for this project. I hear the blacktop is better for boost than the silvetop.

Do some research. Theres a lot of information out there.

Vrouv06 · 10-31-2006, 01:46 PM

Thanks guys. Yeah I've never taken a close look at the engine. I did see one cam pully. It's a DOHC? That's rather......intresting. Don't tell me I don't know anything about engine because THAT is just ignorant. And anyone that knows how to build a fast car will tell you DOHC is better than SOHC because it flows a LOT better and is better for boosted applications. But you guys are saying that his engine is a 16 valve? It has over 200k on it. He said he want to rebuild it and make it a power house. It's a rebuilt 5 speed too. Would that engine be able to put out good numbers?

TubRog5 · 10-31-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrouv06

And anyone that knows how to build a fast car will tell you DOHC is better than SOHC because it flows a LOT better and is better for boosted applications.

This is not entirely true. Some Honda SOHC engines put out better hp/tq numbers than their DOHC engines do when boosted.

Vrouv06 · 10-31-2006, 02:58 PM

Oh I'm sorry I never specified. He does infact have an ST. So is the ST block the 7afe. And You're saying the blacktop 4age will bolt right onto that block? 20v sounds very nice and flow friendly. Acually it sounds amazingly flow friendly. Whats the name of the tranny or acually what car comes with that tranny. I'm not sure what his HP goals are so I'm not sure what to look for but seeing as he said he want to go all out I'm guessing well over 400 HP. In my head I keep thinking about tranny problems from so much power so honostly if there is a more durable tranny then the 6 speed please tell me because that's going to be my biggest worry when it comes to building a power house. But he also has a new tranny in there withnonly like 20k miles on it

Luckynumber5 · 10-31-2006, 04:52 PM

400 horsepower from a 1.6 is not an easy thing to do... hell 300 hp is hard as is. Toyota uses slave gears, so one cam has a pulley and another is connected to the cam with the pulley with a gear inside the valve cover.

The blacktop 20v is slightly weaker than the silvertop, not the other way around. It has lighter internals.

A 5sgte is not the best idea as its a ton of $$ and really all you get in the end is something unique for twice the cost and twice the time.

Now, if he builds the 7afe, gets it some nice cams and some damn good engine management he can get a reliable daily driver with around 300 horsepower, thats within most peoples budget.

If he has gobs of cash to spend (around $5000) he can do a 3sgte swap + tranny, get the head p&p, better cams, upgraded valvetrain, better injectors, fuel pump, serious engine management, head gasket, bigger turbo and water injection and he might get 350+ at the crank with the 3sgte.

If he wants to be really different he can do a v6 swap (lots of fabrication) and try and turbo or supercharge the v6, not easy to do with a celica's engine bay but the v6s will support more power with less money into modifications.

Tommy · 10-31-2006, 07:59 PM

Most anyone has recorded getting out of a 20v is about 230hp. and its also not a great engine for a heavy celica, as it was designed for a corolla. Not going to have nearly enough tq. The 20v is also the most difficult engine to work with, as it was never avaiable in the US, therefore, no more autozone for parts. You have an part go out, you're down for a month trying to get one shipped from Japan. btw - flow isnt everything, and G heads dont need any porting, thats what makes them G heads, theyre from the factory pretty much as good as theyre going to get.

even with a 16v 4AGE, you're unlikely to get more than 250 without making it horribly unstreetable. Id seriously doubt he'd be able to get more than 200 out of a 7AFE either, there are some ideas about swapping the heads out of a 4AGE to a 7AFE, but also, very difficult and yeilds wouldnt be that great. Not to mention its going to be more costly than any swap with all the custom machine work needed.

You're gonna need a lot more than $5000 to get a 3SGTE into a celica. People doing all the work themselves barely get under $6000, the install itself isnt hard, its getting it to run, ie -wiring and all that jazz, you damn near have to have an engineering degree to do it right. And thats just the engine, youll need better brakes, suspension and tires to handle any more than 200hp. Oh and you still dont get a 6spd transmission.

I stand by my original statement - take the $10k youll need to complete the swap, and just buy a All-trac celica and build from there. Youll get 4wd, and a 3SGTE from the factory, and youll be starting with around 220hp. Ive seen decent ones go for $7k-10k all day. much better starting point to build up from there. 350-400hp isnt unheard of from that engine either.

If you really want a 6spd, youll have to buy a 7th gen GTS, only FWD toyota with a 6spd. Those too can easily be had for $10k, and I have seen turbo ones with 400hp.

Luckynumber5 · 10-31-2006, 09:18 PM

Naaah, alltracs are pigs and I have yet to see one perform really well for just 10k. The 7afe built with good engine management and cams is fully capable of pushing 300 horsepower daily driven. There is one person I know of that built a streetable 5th gen 4afte that dynod 400+whp on an automatic so it can be done.

For 10k I would much much rather get a WRX and just do full exhaust and enjoy that for a while over putting 10k into ANY Celica.

Tommy · 10-31-2006, 10:11 PM

man, where you findin WRX's for $10k??

actually for $10k, id rather have a turbo MR2

Luckynumber5 · 11-01-2006, 05:38 AM

Where else

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-...QQcmdZViewItem

Mr2s are fun, but the traction issues in bad weather arent. Just saying Id rather have a wrx for that much money, easier to mod than a 2 as well.

Tommy · 11-01-2006, 05:42 AM

ah well, when you are aiming for 400hp, it really isnt a practical daily driver, so you might as well go all out and get the most unpractical car to do it in

Luckynumber5 · 11-01-2006, 01:21 PM

so true!

A Diddy · 11-01-2006, 01:24 PM

st is garbage man...sell it and get a gt or gt-s and do a 3sgte swap on those using the mr2 turbo lsd transmission. The engine is stock turbo and I am running it at 12 psi daily. You can easily upgrade to a ct20b from the ct26 which comes with it. Note the 3sgte at 9 spi stock outputs 225hp/225 trq at the crank (that's JDM, usdm is 200/200). All in all the St is a bad platform to start on if you want power.