My girlfriend's dad is looking to sell me his '77 Celica ST. It was running the other day but due to a joyride he did (ugh) it no longer runs, he said it needs "new points". I don't really know what this means.
I'm assuming this thing will need a new engine, because it's at 300k. My question is, what are the rules when buying a replacement engine? Can I use an engine that the car was not originally designed to use?
He wanted $500 for it a few days ago, but now I'm thinking it'll be a bit cheaper
Points are Ignition system parts inside the distributor. Just about every car had them until about the late-70's. They are cheap and easy to replace. You will need a timing light to set the new ones.
77 Celicas have 20R engines. The engines are very reliable and can last a long time, but usually, the valve guides wear after 100K+ miles and it will start blowing smoke off idle. It will still run like this for quite a long time as I put over 220K on a 79 Celica. The bottom-end, however, is just about bulletproof.
Later Celicas used 22R engines, which are mechancially similar.
The 20/22R engines were used on Toyota pickup trucks also. Many companies sell remanufactured 20/22R engines.
My brother bought a 22R-E for his 1985 4-Runner through ATK about 8 years ago. His expereince was positive.
Any of the 70-77 Celicas are worth it.
The styling is different to anything else on the road.
Mechanicals are nearly bullet proof and simple to fix when they eventually break.
Upgrade parts can be taken from many other newer Toyotas (brakes, engine, gearbox, diff, wheels, etc).
Buy the Haynes manual - it explains nearly everything you will need to keep it running.
If you're not familiar with engine swaps, then use either a 20R or the slightly bigger 22R.
They are pretty much the same except for capacity.
The 20R came with a carburettor.
The 22R came in both carburettor and EFI versions.
Either can be used but EFI involves the complexity of wiring up the computer.
This car also needs a new battery, but I can't really imagine that being too hard to figure out how to do.
I don't know if that's the order page, but that's a great price for a fresh rebuilt 20R engine. An early Celica is relatively light. It won't be a road rocket, but it will still be reasonably peppy with a 20R.
A budget performance addition would be headers and an aftermarket carburetor.
LC engineering sells dual side-draft 45 mm weber carburetors for $1500. It would scream, but so would your wallet. The 32/36 Progressive Weber isn't a bad carburetor, though not as much performance. It's much cheaper also at $400. They sell a nice header for $358. This is would help with performance as well.
Remember, this is an old car. It's fun to drive, but it's not a road rocket by any means. Do budget yourself to fix other parts of the car also.
New front struts, rear shocks and bushings are a good start. Fresh brakes also.
Note: You can install bigger wheels and tires on this car, but if I rememeber correctly, power steering was not even offered as an option. In other words, you want want to think twice about putting big wheels/tires if you drive make lots of turns.
22R engine will work with some modifications.
__________________
Tom
2004 Prius Touring Edition
2003 Corolla Luxel
2000 Camry LE - Lunar Mist Metallic
Note: You can install bigger wheels and tires on this car, but if I rememeber correctly, power steering was not even offered as an option. In other words, you want want to think twice about putting big wheels/tires if you drive make lots of turns.
I have 205 tyres on my '77 Celica and the steering is quite heavy.
When I had 195 tyres, it didn't corner quite as well but it was a lot easier to drive around town.
Since my daily commute is mostly on the freeway, I'm happy with 205's and a bit of grunting when parking.
Now I have another offer for a different Celica. It's a black 1976 Celica GT with automatic transmission, she said the the only thing that she knows for sure needs to be replaced is the distributor.. and she's asked $75 for it.
Also the woman who is selling the engine I mentioned earlier says that it has a Weber 36/38 carb in it and wants $500 for the engine.
I'm really not sure what I should do!!
-Pay $500 for the orange Celica that (at least) needs points and an engine?
-Buy the $75 black Celica that (at least) needs a new distributor?
GT is better than an ST (but this is a trim only thing in the US).
Distributors are easy to change.
The only thing that I can think of that requirs replacing a distributor is a bent shaft.
Everything else is fixable.
Maybe she just meant the distributor cap or the points.
Either way, it's a bargain.
Maybe buy both and then later on sell one of them.
One thing to keep in mind; It's NOT a high revver, the R engines make good low-end power. It won't last if you drive like it's a 4A-GE or other short-stroke engine.
If the '77 ST is a manual, and the body is in good condition, I would prefer that one. Buy the GT as a parts car and transfer the good parts over.
If the GT is in better condition, transfer the good parts from the ST. Swap the automatic transmission to the manual. The 5-speed manual has fairly long strokes compared to modern manual tranmissions, but if it's still in good condition, it will still shift better than most FWD cars with manual transmissions.
The 32/36 Weber will give you a little more power, but one thing to keep in mind is that this carburetor has been around for a long time. It may be worn, then you would want to rebuild the carburetor. Rebuild kits are cheap.
Distributors are easy to change.
Ditto on the engine not being a high-revver. I never revved mine past about 4000 RPM as it made more noise than power.
"The head was just machined and put back together, and no miles have been put on it since." This means that the head was removed from the short-block and the head has been machined so that it sits nice and flat on the short-block. That's pretty standard when it comes to engine rebuilding.
You'd want to check how much was machined though. You see, what happens at times is that when people let their cars overheat, the cylinder head can warp (cyl head is aluminum, block is cast iron). Head gasket blows and you're leaking coolant/oil.
Sometimes, people just take the head off, machine it flat and put it back on and a new haed gasket.. The more it's warped, the more you would have to machine. The more you machine, the compression ratio goes up as well after the rebuild, and the engine can run hot as a result.
You'd want to get details on what other work was done on the engine, however. If the head has been thoroughly rebuilt, it should have new valve seats, valve guides, 3-angle valve job, etc...On the bottom end, did it get new bearings, piston rings, etc..?
No miles simply means that the engine hasn't been installed on a car and driven on it.
__________________
Tom
2004 Prius Touring Edition
2003 Corolla Luxel
2000 Camry LE - Lunar Mist Metallic
I just drove out to go look at the black celica and it was... a complete piece of trash. It was sitting in a pile of garbage (kid's toys, turkey cooking pans, beer cans) and was also full of trash and acorns from the tree above it. The drivers side door was primer because of a wreck and was full of holes. The radiator was missing. The starter wires were held together with tape. The back seat was missing. The 2 front seats were bare metal and stuffing, everything was rusty, was full of spider webs... I could go on and on. I can't believe they let such a cool car get like that
It turns out that it has a brand new carburetor, fuel pump, fuel filter, alternator, and some other things I don't remember (the entire fuel system was replaced). We replaced the entire distributor today because he had bought one. He also gave me a big illustrated repair guide with it
The carburetor needs to be adjusted because the fuel is running too rich and is causing black smoke to come out the tailpipe, will do that soon!
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