1972 Celica ST Value

[runabout93]

I'm looking at a 72 ST... and was wondering what the going value is?

What's typical mint, good, fair, bad value?

Here's some more info..
The seller is asking $2500. I think he'll go down to $1500, if not lower.

The car has 89k original miles (so he says)
Mechanically it's okay... starts right up, idles good, and doesnt smoke.
-It needs, clutch master/slave cylinder (I'll do lines too) $100 bucks?
-Brakes are crap.. maybe new lines, fluid, bleeding. I'm hoping
-It has some carb or timing issues.. the engine doesnt want to stop after the ignition is turned off??
-Slight ticking... probably normal for a 35yr car. Plus the car sat for 3yrs.

Body is good.. no rust, painted 5-7yrs ago.. it does need some minor touch-ups on the non-painted pieces(badges, vents, vinyl top)
-All of the body panels are lining up nice and doors/trunk are smooth and tight..
-Bumpers are perfectly chromed.. very small dent on each.
-Frame is solid.. no rust anywhere underneath.
-Interior is crap... carpets are ripped out, seats are cracked, the headliner is about the only cloth salvageable.
-All of the guages, lights, ebrake, etc. are working

I can fix and clean up most of it pretty cheap... the brakes and carb/timing issues are the worse of it. But, what's a project car without some issues.

What's everyone else think?? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I gotta give this guy an answer soon.

[runabout93]

Anyone have any opinion or thoughts? I need to convince my girlfriend that this is a good opportunity. I shouldn't pass this up. Am I right?

[stepho]

Hmm, tough one.
The early models are rasing in price asthey are becoming "classics" (good point for the girlfriend).
Mechanical issues are always easy to sort out on early Celicas.
But interior trim is hard ot find in wrecking yards, so it will be a pain to fix.

If it sat for 3 years then it may just be ne wbrake fluid andbleeding but I'd look at tal teh brake seals.
Look for weeping around the brake master cylinder and each of the slave cylinders.
It isn't expensive to replace each cylinder, so not a major problem.

Engine ticking:
Hard to diagnose over the internet.
Might be an opportunity to upgrade the engine.
The 18R is an almost indestructable motor but 35 yeasr is a long time.
Might just be the timing chain or chain dampers.

Carpets can be bought brand new from aftermarket suppliers.
Seats can be reupholstered.
Interior side trim panels may or may not be an issue - ask an upholsterer.

Paint and panels in good condition is alwyas good news.

I'd say it's easily worth $1500 and marginally worth the $2500.
I know another friend looking at a better example for US$4000 and a similar condition (ie tatty interior) '77 liftback for CA$7700 .

- Stepho

[runabout93]

Thanks stepho! I should be good to go now. And my girlfriends finally coming around. I posted on a few other boards so she believes me now. All of these various encourgements from complete strangers. It's a no brainer to her now.

I'm gonna see how low he will go today. It has enough wrong with it so I can argue. He should've kept up with it... so, it's his own damn fault for letting it go to hell. I can do a lot of the interior myself. Except the seats. But, I can cover them for the time being. I have some creative talents when it comes to that stuff. Door panels aren't too bad either.

Well, I'm looking at it one more time today. I'll take your advice on the brakes. I'm gonna offer him $750 bucks and reel him under $1500. Ideally, I would buy it for $1200 or less and feel really good about it.

I'll post the outcome tonight... and I'm bringing my camera... so, I'll post some pictures.

Thanks again

[runabout93]

Well... after waiting and waiting for this guy to get back to me, He finally calls and sets the date for tomorow. So, looks like another long day of anticipation.

Oh well.. what's one more day?

[runabout93]

Okay.. I met with him and took one more look at her. I got him down to $1500... which was my cut-off price. He wouldn't budge below it. So, I walked away and told him to call me if he changed his mind. I'll see if he calls. This guy is a long story...

Here are some pics...

The lighting wasnt good at all. I think she's pretty close to becoming really nice. Interior is another story.

FRONT PASSENGER SIDE


FRONT DRIVERS SIDE


BACK SIDE


CLOTH TOP - No vinyl... not sure what I would do about that?


ENGINE - Really dirty and needing of some love

[stepho]

Run back and throw that $1500 at the seller.

Panels look straight and rust free (but I can't see the bottoms of the door or fenders).
Paint looks okay except for where the dreaded vinyl used to be on the roof (but still appears rust free in that area).

The rust under the front grill is easily fixed with a lot of elbow grease (wire brush, chemical deruster, sand paper, paint).

The rims and tyres look like so much crud but are easily swapped for alloy rims.
Same bolt pattern as many 1977-1985 Toyota rims and many Nissan/Mitsubishi rims.

The rear taillights are the rare flat lights.
The following year they changed to a more 3D type.

The exterior trim is all there.
Which is good because these parts are very hard to find.

The interior will be the hard part.
Seats can be recoverd.
Interior side panels are tricky to recover and nearly impossible to find in good condition.
Rear dash panel is easily replaced with chipboard or MDF or even just wrapped in black cloth.

Engine bay looks grimy but that means nothing.
Engine is easily replaced with 18R-C, 18R-G (twincam), 20R or 22R.

This car is tatty now but with some work it will be worth a lot more in years to come as a "classic".
But understand that this is a life style choice.
It will involve quite a lot of time but not a huge amount of money.
If you just want a means of transport then buy a something bland from around 2000-2005.

- Stepho

[runabout93]

Thanks Stepho... I think you hit the nail on the head. Most of the problems with this car are manual labor and a lot of babying. The major stuff where it counts are solid. The body is great! No rust from head to toe. I can't describe how nice the doors, trunk, hood fit. It almost brings a tear to my eye. The rubber will need to be replaced to make them PERFECT. The engine needs the hoses, fluids, and a serious tune-up. But, she runs strong, doesnt smoke or burn oil that i could tell, and starts right up. 89,000 miles on the car... that's it.

I also re-evaluated the interior last night and I dont think it is as bad as I originally thought. It was too dark to get any good pictures. But, the door panels, arm rest, console, dash cover, instrumentation, steering wheel, etc. are all fair-good condition. Carpet, cleaning, and touching up is all it needs. I've made carpeting for a lot of the vehicles I've owned. So, that wont be an issue. The rear shelf is easy, like you said. The seats will need restoration/upholstering. But, I can cover them until that time comes. The seats will be near the end of my list of stuff to do.

The tires and normal wear stuff I've found online already. Actually, I found great prices. Basic parts are much cheaper than my Mr2. I can't wait to find the right wheels. Wheels make a big difference to the appearance. (IMO)

This is my second project car in the past 2 years. I restored my 93 MR2 to near mint (mostly original) conidtion.... and now this is my next project. I usually set an hour or so asside every night for this stuff. It keeps me out of trouble. Weekends are usually for playing... but, I can see I might be attached to this car on the weekends for a few months. I have a daily driver so this is all hobby and fun to me. And I have all the time it will take to get it right.

[gonzo08452]

Originally Posted by runabout93

Thanks Stepho... I think you hit the nail on the head. Most of the problems with this car are manual labor and a lot of babying. The major stuff where it counts are solid. The body is great! No rust from head to toe. I can't describe how nice the doors, trunk, hood fit. It almost brings a tear to my eye. The rubber will need to be replaced to make them PERFECT. The engine needs the hoses, fluids, and a serious tune-up. But, she runs strong, doesnt smoke or burn oil that i could tell, and starts right up. 89,000 miles on the car... that's it.

I also re-evaluated the interior last night and I dont think it is as bad as I originally thought. It was too dark to get any good pictures. But, the door panels, arm rest, console, dash cover, instrumentation, steering wheel, etc. are all fair-good condition. Carpet, cleaning, and touching up is all it needs. I've made carpeting for a lot of the vehicles I've owned. So, that wont be an issue. The rear shelf is easy, like you said. The seats will need restoration/upholstering. But, I can cover them until that time comes. The seats will be near the end of my list of stuff to do.

The tires and normal wear stuff I've found online already. Actually, I found great prices. Basic parts are much cheaper than my Mr2. I can't wait to find the right wheels. Wheels make a big difference to the appearance. (IMO)

This is my second project car in the past 2 years. I restored my 93 MR2 to near mint (mostly original) conidtion.... and now this is my next project. I usually set an hour or so asside every night for this stuff. It keeps me out of trouble. Weekends are usually for playing... but, I can see I might be attached to this car on the weekends for a few months. I have a daily driver so this is all hobby and fun to me. And I have all the time it will take to get it right.

sweet find

[runabout93]

Originally Posted by gonzo08452

sweet find

Thanks... it's not mine yet. I'm starting to get nervous now. I should've jsut taken settled on his last offer.

[runabout93]

Well after holding my breath for an entire night, I got a call yesterday morning. He's taking $1200 for the car! It's officially mine... pending the bill-of-sale, which we'll do soon.

He's gonna install the struts, tie rod endlinks, and the breaks(replace the lines and rebleed). I'll probably replace the brake system and the lines in stainless later.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's constructive criticism and advice. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress when I get a chance!

[stepho]

Excellent news.
Good car and at the cheaper price - although I try not to gamble so much

Rare spares in Australia do most of the rubber you need.

Read through this list of things to upgrade (brakes, engiens, etc).
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...pho/celfaq.txt
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...ho/history.htm

- Stepho

[runabout93]

Originally Posted by stepho

Excellent news.
Good car and at the cheaper price - although I try not to gamble so much

Rare spares in Australia do most of the rubber you need.

Read through this list of things to upgrade (brakes, engiens, etc).
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...pho/celfaq.txt
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...ho/history.htm

- Stepho

Yeah... normally, I wouldn't have gambled on a car I was seeking. But, I wasnt seeking this one. She found me... I figured if it was meant to be then it would happen.

Where do i find Australian stuff? I definitely need rubber around the doors. The engline and trunk areas are good. I think they were replaced at some point. Bushings I think I found at rockauto.com. I can't remember, I've looked up so much stuff last week.

That's info you have is awesome man! WOW! Totally priceless! I'll print that up and keep it handy.

[stepho]

You can get rubber from Toyhead in the states (if he has any stock left)http://toyheadauto.com/Celica_Parts_1971_to_1977.htmlor mail order from Rare Spares in Australia.https://rsp-secure.com/rarespares/de...el=TOYOTAThere is a guy in Thailand selling early Celica stuff on Ebay.I haven't used him yet but it looks good from the photos.He has lots of little items like indicators and the interior door handle surrounds.Make sure your Ebay search includes worldwide.Suspension stuff you can get from Josh in the states atwww.st185performance.comAsk for details because he doesn't advertise the early stuff on his website.- Stepho

[stepho]

computer fouled up the formatting.Let's try again.You can get rubber from Toyhead in the states (if he has any stock left) http://toyheadauto.com/Celica_Parts_1971_to_1977.html or mail order from Rare Spares in Australia. https://rsp-secure.com/rarespares/de...el=TOYOTA There is a guy in Thailand selling reproduction early Celica stuff on Ebay.I haven't used him yet but it looks good from the photos.He has lots of little items like indicators and the interior door handle surrounds.Make sure your Ebay search includes worldwide.Suspension stuff you can get from Josh in the states at www.st185performance.com Ask for details because he doesn't advertise the early stuff on his website.- Stepho