need engine swap info on 72 celica - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

crummy72celica · 03-15-2008, 06:23 PM

hey i have a beat up 72 celica st with a four speed manual. the 186 in it has a bad head and a cracked block so i think its time for an upgrade. i want to get a 20r and celica gt 5-speed (i would like to know if my four speed will fit the 20r) swapped in so could some1 please tell me what i need for that swap. in the future i plan to swap in a 302 v8 from a 70s mustang with a 4 speed manual or a 4a-ge from an ae86 corolla with a 5 speed manual and i would like to know what custom items i would need made and some info on who on the east coast could do it (the engine will fit). if sum1 cud share this info i would really appreciate it. Thanx

stepho · 03-17-2008, 05:08 PM

I assume "186" really means 18R-C.

The 20R would be good and the 22R would be even better.
Both are taller than the 18R-C, so the air cleaner will hit the bonnet (hood).
You can modify the bonnet or the air cleaner or lower the engine by modifying the mounts or crossmember.
Toyota lowered the engine on the '75 Celica RA22 to fit the 20R.

The 4 speed W40 and the 5 speed W50 swap with no problems.
Beware that the W50 came in a few different versions that had the gear stick in different places depending on the donor car.

The 1600cc 4A-GE may be a little under powered unless you like living with high revs all day.

I would not put a Ford cast iron V8 in it.
The extra weight ahead of the front wheels will kill your handling - which may then kill you when you run off a corner with terminal understeer.

The all alloy Lexus V8 is a more practical engine - physically smaller and with more power than the Ford 302.
I have a friend that did that to his '77 liftback but the '72 has a slightly smaller engine bay.
Another guy did it to his '73 but he recessed the firewall at great expense.

Here a few more suggestions
http://members.iinet.net.au/~stepho/celfaq.txt

How did a Celica get to St Petersburg, Russia?

- Stepho

jlspec · 03-17-2008, 05:33 PM

What about the RWD 3S-GE found in the Altezza? At 210HP it would be a great swap.

stepho · 03-18-2008, 05:12 AM

Yep, the 3S-GE in RWD form would be excellent.
Several people had done it in Australia using the 3S-GTE and ST141 Corona gearboxes (which had a 2S engine and RWD but wasn't sold in America).

- Stepho

crummy72celica · 03-19-2008, 01:39 AM

concerning the 4a-ge i am a rev-happy person so it wouldnt affect me. but considering im only 16 and have an extremely limited income (the car only cost $250usd), i dont think a 3sge will work. I think i will go with the 20r/22r because i can get one of those pretty easily and it will work untill i have enough money. I also wanted to know if i put in a 22r, would i have to put in an ecu and other electronic stuff? the reason i am asking is because if i have to put in all of that electrical stuff in i may go with an engine i prefer, like the 4a-ge (yes i know its underpowered). for right now i may just go with the 20r and my factory w40 4 spd. i dont have any experience with modifying crossmembers and mounts so i can just cut a hole in the hood and put one of those stick-on hood scoops over it right? ( i really dont care how stupid it will look i just want the thing to run) also can anyone please tell me what would be needed for the 4a-ge swap? thank you all soooo much for your wonderful help.

stepho · 03-19-2008, 07:45 AM

I would avoid the 4A-GE.
Lots of complexity for a first swap.
Same with the 3S-GE.

The 2200cc 20R or 2400cc 22R are easy swaps.
Both are equally easy (they are nearly identical apart from capacity).
Try modifying the air cleaner (or an aftermarket one) before cutting holes in the bonnet (hood).

The 22R comes in both carb (22R) and EFI (22R-E) form .
The EFI is slihtly nicer to drive but you have to install the computer and its wiring.
I'd recommend the carb version for a first swap.
You can upgrade it later to EFI when you get more experience and money.

The 22R has a surprising amount of torque for such an old engine.
It will make you much happier than the 4A-GE.

Just for the record, I have a twincam 18R-G in my '77 Celica.
It has heaps more power and response than the 22R but mine makes it's power above 4000rpm (it 's an ex-race engine).
Lot's of fun but the noise can get tiresome on some days.
The 18R-G is hard to find in America but very rewarding if you can find one.
It's also a drop in replacement for the 8R and 18R-C, except for a new exhaust and some accelerator rod modification.

- Stepho

crummy72celica · 03-20-2008, 12:47 PM

hey thanks stepho. i would kill for the 18r-g but i cant find one. so a smaller aftermarket air cleaner? what about a dual weber carb kit? will that work? thanks for your help so much!

stepho · 03-21-2008, 08:22 AM

A dual Weber kit should do it but it will be expensive to buy a pair of Weber side drafts.
The inlet manifold to fit them to a 22R is also expensive and quite hard to find.

- Stepho

crummy72celica · 03-21-2008, 10:22 AM

thanks for all of your help. im currently searching for a 20r/22r. i will provide pics of the engine swap as it goes if any of you want me too.

stepho · 03-22-2008, 03:31 AM

I'll be looking forward to the pictures.

- Stepho

crummy72celica · 03-22-2008, 09:50 AM

oh i have another question. with the four speed manual, wich fly wheel and clutch do i use? all of the clutch kits all just say years and engines. i guess i get the ones that say 18r-c right?

stepho · 03-23-2008, 10:21 AM

In America, the Celica had the 18R-C engine from Sept 1971 to Aug 1974.
I think that means the '72, '73 and '74 model years in Yank speak (the rest of the world would call it differently).
http://members.iinet.net.au/~stepho/celprod.htm#cel21pr

- Stepho

crummy72celica · 03-23-2008, 09:08 PM

yes i know the engines but which clutch do i get?do i get the one for a 1972 celica if im still using the four-speed? i dthink i do but i want to make sure. thanx

stepho · 03-24-2008, 03:38 AM

Ah, now I understand.
You want to know which clutch to use when you put the 22R in.

Sad to say, I can't remember which.
I think the 22R clutch will work with the W40 gearbox.
I will ask around.

- Stepho

shonuff · 03-27-2008, 04:19 PM

you can use a W50/55/ or W58 5 speed tranny as well.

i highly recommend the W58 its all aluminum and much closer gears and better syncro's then the older trannys.

it WILL bolt right up in your car, the only hitch may be a need to drill 2 holes for the bolts on the tranny x-member. the w58 is about 1.5 in longer then the W50/40.

you should also go grab the engine cross member from a 75-77 celica. it was designed for the 2Xr and lets the eng sit lower in the bay then the 18r mounts will.

good luck