Turbo up my 5S-FE Celica

[Ethan9307]

Ok well first of all heres what I gots. I have a 1998 Toyota Celica GT with the 5S-FE 2.2L I4 FWD 5 speed... yada yada. It has about 116,000 miles so theres alot of just preventative maintenance I will be doing.

I am going to turbo it. I have a few questions and want some opinions.

Here's what I plan on getting out of it. No more than 10 PSI boost (probably only going to start with 4-6). I don't want to get into internals of the engine.

Here's like kinda my plan for it right now (very rough plan as of now... Gotta fine tune this stuff)

Prep:
1. Do some basic check-up on the engine (compression check, vacuum check, fuel pressure test, oil leaks, all that sorta check-up stuff)
2. I am going to try and clean as much carbon and other build-up out of it as I can. I'm going to start changing the oil (just with cheap oriellys brand oil and filter) every 500-1000 miles or so and using seafoam a couple times.
3. Check for any other engine problems (noises, codes, all that stuff)

Heres what i've planned out for parts:
1. Turbo (havn't chosen one yet.. so suggestions on that are more than welcome)
2. Exhaust manifold (going to just get a 3S-GTE manifold from somewheres...)
3. Exhaust system (downpipe and back), I work at a performance shop which can do custom exhaust inhouse so no problems there.. I could even build custom headers but that can be expensive so.. i'll just buy it.
4. Wastegate (again suggestions welcome on brands...)
5. Intercooler and piping from air filter to turbo, turbo to intercooler, and intercooler to intake. It'll obviously be air-air intercooler.
6. Oil lines and fittings
7. Blow off valve (suggestions welcome again...)
8. Injectors and fuel pump upgrades if needed (anyone know if i'll need it for my expectations? Again probably gonna run about 4-6 and maybe bump to 8 if all is well... Suggestions welcome here too.
9. Guages (Oil pressure, Air/Fuel, Boost/vacuum, Coolant temp, Tachometer, Speedometer, Voltage, Fuel pressure, oil temp), I think that's all the guages I will need. We work closesly with Autometer at my shop so I can actually get guages really cheap or even for free so this won't cost to much.. But if I forgot any important guages then please let me know what i'm missing.

Here's some basic maintenance i'll be doing just to make sure nothing fails:
1. Cap and rotor replacement (it will actually be an upgrade, i'm going to get a high end one)
2. Coil upgrade (to something pretty high performance)
3. Wires (deffinately need an upgrade as the stock wires are 5mm so i'll be going to some nice like 7 or 8mm high performance wires)
4. New plugs (NGK set...)
5. I think I can get an MSD box pretty cheap if theres one just laying around my shop so I might pop that in
6. Optima battery (need it for system not really the turbo setup, and i'll also be doing some rewiring of a few components)
7. New alternator (upgrading to a higher output since I have a system and I need a better on)
8. New timing belt (don't know if it needs it but preventative maintenance...)
9. New fuel filter (high end one if I can get it)
10. Brakes, Already have high end rear rotors and ceramic pads but will be getting some slotted rotors up front, maybe upgrade the caliper, and ceramic pads.
11. Gaskets (all high end stuff...) - I'll be doing a complete gasket set.. Every gasket will be replaced pretty much
12. Flush every system there is, cooling, brakes, all that stuff.
13. New clutch (high performance)


I think that's a pretty good rough draft of my upgrades and maintenance i'll need to get this puppy ready for the turbo.

I do have a couple questions that someone here probably knows
1. What is the compression ratio on the 5S-FE
2. Does the 5S-FE use a MAF sensor or a speed density
3. Is there anything else anyone can think of that I should do to this little girl to get it ready for this setup?

Recomendations on anything i've planned are very welcome and much appreciated. If you have a brand that is best for this engine or whatever then please let me know. I want this thing to be a pretty budgeted but not cheap components that will fail on me.

Thanks for any help guys.

Also, I know of a 1994 celica ST (i think thats the other model..) in a junkyard with a good engine I think. Is it the same engine(5S-FE)? And if so, I might just go buy that and then end up building the internals up to and running maybe like 15 PSI or so... Would it be more worthwhile to try and do that or would I still be able to get some good boost and power out of no internal mods?

[flyingtele]

hi there, I am pretty sure its possible but not sure, look at getting a 3sgte head for it. as far as i know the 5sfe only has a larger stroke than the 3sge/3sgte engines. You would need a 3sgte loom and computer, but it would be far better because the Toyota engines with g in the suffix (3s-gte, 3s-ge) have heads that are ported and designed for performance whereas engines with f (5s-fe) are typically designed for economy.
Also, if you are turbo-ing it you should install a steel head gasket.

[Ethan9307]

Yea, I said gaskets all around, that includes head, cam carrier, oil pan, exhaust.. everything there is where there could be a new leak with boost will be upgraded. I don't know if I can find a G series engine but I can try. I don't want to spend very much though.. Like I said, i'm not looking at a serious amount of boost, I just want a little... So I dont really need to get into valve work or anything. All i'm doing in the head is popping it off, cleaning the valves and such and then if anything inside there is even remotely messed up I will find a junkyard G motor and take the head and slap some quality valves and all into it. Maybe even a turbo-tuned cam. But that isn't what I want to do. I want budget and i want the only time I open the block up is when I swap the head gasket.

[flyingtele]

oh well good luck with your project. One thing you will need to pay close attention to is the pistons, when you add boost you are more likely to get detonation or a lean situation which normally results in a melted piston. The 5sfe pistons are not designed with boost pressures and temperatures in mind, and the rings almost certainly arent. But as you long as you dont go turning the boost up to something crazy you shouldn't have (m)any problems

[Ethan9307]

Ok, well I need to know one thing really.. i've got the rest kinda figured out and if not like I said I work at a performance shop so it's all easy cheesy.

Does a 1998 Celica GT 5S-FE engine have a mass air flow sensor or does it use speed density. And if it uses speed density what control systems are best to make this engine run good with boost?

[concealer404]

Originally Posted by flyingtele

oh well good luck with your project. One thing you will need to pay close attention to is the pistons, when you add boost you are more likely to get detonation or a lean situation which normally results in a melted piston. The 5sfe pistons are not designed with boost pressures and temperatures in mind, and the rings almost certainly arent. But as you long as you dont go turning the boost up to something crazy you shouldn't have (m)any problems

Pistons are plenty strong. They're "forged." It's the rod bolts that let go.

5sfe is a map-based engine.

[cardshark525]

As for the ST engine your looking to by I'd skip it. The GT has a 2.2L with 135hp, and the ST has the corolla engine with a 1.8L with 110HP. So if your looking to throw a turbo on, go with your engine or buy a replacement GT engine with lower miles.

[92-gt]

Check this thread out. I plan on some day boosting my 5s.
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36445

It is very informative.

[92-gt]

Also while you are on that thread, check out supershannons car....

[Ethan9307]

Well see i'm still like up in the air with this... The 5S-FE is MAP based so i'de have to have computer modules to control air/fuel and all that. It has an alluminum block, lighter but can't take as much power. And the worst of all... it's hard as HELLLLL to find performance parts for this specific engine unless they are custom made (ie pistons, rods, main studs, rod bolts, head studs.... you get the point)
The 3S-GTE comes stock turbo and is MAF controlled so not much for computer add-ons... It has a cast block which can take more power. And best of all, companys actually make parts for it (ie JE makes pistons, Eagle makes H-beam rods, and ARP makes studs for the head, mains and bolts for the rods.)

So basically, If I go with the 5S-FE I have more computer components to buy, have to have everything custom made, and run the risk of cracking the block. But I have a 2.2 instead of a 2.0 (either way it would be bored and stroked). I don't have to spend 1000-2500 on the engine.

With the 3S-GTE it'll be harder to hurt the block but I have more weight, I get performance parts ready instead of having to custom make everything. I only have a 2.0 liter but it will be bored and stroked so it'll be bigger, and I have the plus of a cast block which mean I can push more power into it the the 5S-FE's alluminum block.

I just don't know... My co-workers all said they would go with the 3S... And that was what I was thinking just because of the cast block, performance heads (which will be upgraded SIGNIFICANTLY anyways...), and the already in place MAF setup so no computer modules to add and I can get one with the ECU and wiring harness... Easy to sawp in a nice upgradable FWD trans... What would you guys do? I'm planning on a serious engine here (15-25 PSI) fully built from the drain plug to the rear bumper... Complete performance makeover (block, head, all cooling, vacuum, oil, brakes, wheels, suspension from springs to sway bars and subframe reinforcment, exhaust, trans, axles, EVERYTHINNNNGGG)

So what would you do?

[92-gt]

The 3sgte rods will fit on the 5scrank if you send the crank out and have it machined. The biggest thing that makes me want to just boost the 5s is because of what supershannon did with hers. Its making as much as most 3s swaps and in a 5th gen it would be faster than most swaps.

[concealer404]

Originally Posted by Ethan9307

Well see i'm still like up in the air with this... The 5S-FE is MAP based so i'de have to have computer modules to control air/fuel and all that. It has an alluminum block, lighter but can't take as much power.

No. It doesn't. Iron block.

And the worst of all... it's hard as HELLLLL to find performance parts for this specific engine unless they are custom made (ie pistons, rods, main studs, rod bolts, head studs.... you get the point)
The 3S-GTE comes stock turbo and is MAF controlled so not much for computer add-ons... It has a cast block which can take more power. And best of all, companys actually make parts for it (ie JE makes pistons, Eagle makes H-beam rods, and ARP makes studs for the head, mains and bolts for the rods.)

Hi, check out the ATS Rom Tune. While i don't agree with it, it is a "computer upgrade" that will improve the driving characteristics of a 3sgte, and make some more power.

So basically, If I go with the 5S-FE I have more computer components to buy, have to have everything custom made, and run the risk of cracking the block. But I have a 2.2 instead of a 2.0 (either way it would be bored and stroked). I don't have to spend 1000-2500 on the engine.

The block won't crack. It's not aluminum. What WILL go out eventually is the rod bolts. The crank is strong as hell. The pistons themselves are more than capable. The head? Who cares, it's getting boosted.

If you're talking about boring and stroking a 3sgte, then why are you even messing around with thinking about a 5sfe? Seriously. Go ahead and spend your $3k+ to swap your car correctly, and then spend another $2-3k for your 2.2 stroker, and then spent another $2-3k for a turbo setup that the stroker is better matched for. And then another $2-3k for a standalone ems and dyno tuning. Sound good yet?

With the 3S-GTE it'll be harder to hurt the block but I have more weight, I get performance parts ready instead of having to custom make everything. I only have a 2.0 liter but it will be bored and stroked so it'll be bigger, and I have the plus of a cast block which mean I can push more power into it the the 5S-FE's alluminum block.

See above.

I just don't know... My co-workers all said they would go with the 3S...

Do you coworkers work for Toyota?

And that was what I was thinking just because of the cast block, performance heads (which will be upgraded SIGNIFICANTLY anyways...),

Iron block. Only have one head, sorry.

and the already in place MAF setup so no computer modules to add and I can get one with the ECU and wiring harness...

The Toyota AFM is the BIGGEST POS i have ever seen on a car. I would suggest shelling out another $1k to get an ST205 motor. But all of this won't matter if you're just going to stroke it to a 2.2, because if you do the EMS setup the best way, you'll be running a map again anyways.

Easy to sawp in a nice upgradable FWD trans...

Such as?

What would you guys do? I'm planning on a serious engine here (15-25 PSI) fully built from the drain plug to the rear bumper... Complete performance makeover (block, head, all cooling, vacuum, oil, brakes, wheels, suspension from springs to sway bars and subframe reinforcment, exhaust, trans, axles, EVERYTHINNNNGGG)

So what would you do?

I'd hope you have $30k. And that you would enjoy having one of the most expensive fail wheel drive cars. Ever.


I would also suggest research. Lots. Of. It.

[cardshark525]

So basically with all that you've said, theres no doubt in my mind that you want a swap. From what you've said you also want to up anywhere from 10-20k into it as well. The only thing thats going through my mind right now is that you're looking to attempt to turn it into a GT-4 hybrid of sorts w/o the 4wd. for the kind of money your looking to spend and work you're looking to put into this car, seriously consider selling the car you have now and research into importing a GT-4 and starting from there.It'll cost you 10-15 for the car and import... but then you put 5k into a GT-4 and you've got a pretty sick car.

[Ethan9307]

Wow ya know it really seems like people here are.. well don't care if i break rules.. but assholes.

I do not know dick about toyotas in particular guys. You don't have to be so rude when i'm wrong. All I want is my 1998 celica body with a very fast engine and I was thinking of ways to do it... I will have lots of money to do it because it will be over about a year or two... But obviously all I can get is critisism here and no actual advice... So if anyone wants to actually help me with this then please... go ahead, but I would really love a little less lip from ever post here...

I think i'll do this on my own... I don't care if my co-workers aren't toyota trained or what the crap ever.. we make fast cars, and thats what I want.. So banned I be.

Fuck you all. You all need to learn how to treat someone with some goddamn respect. Go fuck yourselves.

Peace

[92-gt]

Wow,,,,anger much...I tried to help you, but obviously you didnt look into my advice much..