92 Celica GT Will Not Start I've ran out of ideas!!
I have a 1992 Celica GT with a 5-speed manual and the 2.2 L motor. The first few weeks after I traded for this car it was running like a top. I was driving it to work 70 miles round trip everyday. Suddenly, as I was driving at 65 mph , the car just lost rpms and died. My attempts to downshift and hit the accelorator did nothing, the car just coasted to the side of the road and that was it. I cranked on it until the battery was almost dead and then gave up. I had a local shop tow it to there garage. That was a month ago. They had the car for 3 weeks during which time they spent 8.5 hours of diagnostic labor and "COULD NOT FIND THE PROBLEM". They tried the following fixes with no luck: Deadhead tested the fuel pump and said it was good, they cycled through a series of new ignition system parts attempting to isolate the problem. Those parts included the Distributor, Ignitor, and the ECM Computer. They also claimed to "reference voltages to sensors" whatever that means. On Monday of this week, I decided I had payed them enough for nothing and that I would just bring the car back home and attempt to find the problem myself. This week, I have checked all of the fuses and replaced the EFI main relay and put on a new fuel filter. I also checked all of the wiring connectors that were accessible in the engine compartment. Nothing fixed the problem. However, when I put in the new relay, I was able to jumper wire the +B and Fp diagnostic terminals and did get the fuel pump to turn on (Key in On position) for a while yesterday but it would not start. Today, I put on the new fuel filter and again jumped the fuel pump. It hummed for about 30 seconds and then began to pulsate and eventually shut itself off. The car still did not start. I am at wits end with this thing. What else can I do before I send this thing prematurely to the boneyard. One strange thing that I noticed tonight by accident was that even after I had moved the ignition switch to the lock position and removed the key, my power windows were still able to be moved up and down. Is it possible that the ignition switch could be responsible for all of the problems with this car? Just for the sake of trying, I have ordered a salvage fuel pump and sending unit that I will put in the car the beginning of next week. There is another relay called the "Circuit Opening Relay that is located under the dash by the ECU that the Haynes Manual says might cause this problem. Does anyone know a shadetree test for this relay. The cost for a new one is around $90.00. I don't want to get rid of this car but I am going to have to if I can get it running. I can't continue driving my Dodge Ram (15 mpg) to work every day. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
By jumping the Pf and B+ terminals, you have basically by-passed the COR; if that was your problem, the car would have started.
You didn't say if you are getting spark or not, did anyone test for that? What about injector pulses at the injectors? Those are the first couple of things you should verify.
From your descriptions, it sounds like the repair shop was just throwing parts at the car instead of diagnosing it. You may want to start from the beginning and do some basic diagnoses.
Beside checking for spark, is the CEL on when key on or cranking?
N.E.O.
Last edited by new echo owner; 10-24-2008 at 08:52 PM.
One strange thing that I noticed tonight by accident was that even after I had moved the ignition switch to the lock position and removed the key, my power windows were still able to be moved up and down. Is it possible that the ignition switch could be responsible for all of the problems with this car?
The windows working after the key is removed is normal. They work for about 30 seconds after the ignition is off or until a door is opened.
Neo is right, go back to basics and check for spark and fuel.
__________________
91 Celica GT Coupe
Knowledge builds confidence.
N.E.O. Yes the CEL light does come on when I am attempting to start the car. It was'nt coming on however, until I replaced the EFI Main Relay and a blown ignition fuse. The shop claimed the problem was "no spark". They tried all of the previous mentioned parts and nothing would produce spark. What is the best way to test for spark and is there a way to troubleshoot the ignition switch? Thanks
Did anyone check the timing belt? What you described is what happened to me when my timing belt went.
Easy check is to pull the distributor cap and crank the engine - if the rotor does not turn than the timing belt is broken. If it does turn and there is not spark than it could be the iginition coil.
Don't junk it; it is a great car My 92 gt has 250K miles on it and still running strong!
Check for voltage at the ignition coil if the simplest way to check the ignition switch, if you have power there when cranking or in run position, the switch is probably fine.
elcapatante is correct too, if the timing belt is broke, the distributor won't turn and thus won't be sending signal to the igniter to trigger a spark.
Check those two and let us know what you found.
BTW, if you had to replace the relay and fuse to get the CEL to work, it is possible that the repair short had mess up when doing their 'tests'. I would suggest check all the fuses and connections too, never know what other problem they may have caused.
Okay, here's the latest. Today, I checked to see if the rotor was spinning. It did spin but is was not spinning real fast so I guess the timing belt is okay. I also checked all of the wiring connections around the ignition parts. All seemed okay. I tested the ignition coil for both voltage and resistance. All of the measurements were within specs in the Haynes manual. I ran resistance tests on all of the spark plug wires and distributor cap and they were good. Then I checked for spark by pulling a plug and cranking the starter. I got nothing. So tommorow I am going to order an Igniter from NAPA and possibly a coil just in case the Igniter isn't it. I am hoping that what N.E.O. mentioned is the case. Possibly the ignition components that the shop was trying on the car would not work because the EFI Relay and the 7.5 IGN Fuse were bad. The only part that I am confident that the shop tested in a competent way was the distributor itself. They happened to have another Toyota in the shop that was compatible with my distributor. They put it in the other car and it fired right up. Please post any other diagnostics that I should run on this car. I will update after trying a new igniter and/or Ignition Coil and after I get the salvage fuel pump and sending unit installed. Thanks
This problem gets more puzzling everyday. After my last post, I put in a new "ignition coil". The old coil that I took out had some moisture built up on it. Upon installing the new coil, I turned the key and the car "actually started". But my excitement was short lived because after about 20 seconds, the engine began cutting out and died. During the time that the engine did fire up, I could here the fuel pump engaging and then it began to sound like it was surging. Shortly after the fuel pump surge started, the engine was dead again. There were no more starts that night. Today, I thought I had figured out the last piece of the puzzle and installed a new fuel pump and sending unit. After putting the pump in, I could here it operating when I cranked the starter but once again, no dice. I am at this point completely out of ideas. I cannot run diagnostic codes because the shop took the ECU out of the car thus clearing the memory. It won't throw any codes now because it will not even start. So all I know for sure at this point is that I have an engine that apparently has no spark. I have replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, cap, rotor, plugs, plug wires, EFI Main Relay, and the 7.5 IGN fuse. None of which has fixed the problem. There is power at the coil, the igniter, and the fuel pump. All of the diagnostic lights on the instrument panel do come on when you turn the key. None of them stay on. No car of this age should have a problem that is this hard to diagnose. I do not have enough mechanical knowledge to know what to do from here.
Today when I was going through the distributor electrical connections, I discovered that the 2-wire connector (Distributor Wire that connects the ignitor to the coil) was broken. The plastic part of the connector that goes into the slot on the right side of the distributor is snapped in half. Both of the wires that leave the connector and are screwed to the coil's positive and negative connections have splits in the wires sheething that go all the way around the wires. These splits in the are exactly parallel to each other. The longer + wire is black with an orange stripe. The short wire is solid black. Is it possible that current is jumping back and forth between these two wires and preventing the engine from starting. Could this be the missing link? Can this 2-wire connector be purchased by itself or do you have to purchase a complete distributor? On a side note, I have fixed the fuel pump's issues and I am pretty sure it is getting fuel now. Today when I tried to start it, it started smelling like it was getting flooded.
It's broke and it's in the ignition system, replace or repair it. If the wires are split, then they are probably corroded/broken on the inside. When moist or wet they can ground or touch each other and cause problems.
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The first few weeks after I traded for this car it was running like a top. I was driving it to work 70 miles round trip everyday. Suddenly, as I was driving at 65 mph , the car just lost rpms and died. My attempts to downshift and hit the accelorator did nothing, the car just coasted to the side of the road and that was it. I cranked on it until the battery was almost dead and then gave up. I had a local shop tow it to there garage. That was a month ago. They had the car for 3 weeks during which time they spent 8.5 hours of diagnostic labor and "COULD NOT FIND THE PROBLEM". They tried the following fixes with no luck: Deadhead tested the fuel pump and said it was good, they cycled through a series of new ignition system parts attempting to isolate the problem. Those parts included the Distributor, Ignitor, and the ECM Computer. They also claimed to "reference voltages to sensors" whatever that means. On Monday of this week, I decided I had payed them enough for nothing and that I would just bring the car back home and attempt to find the problem myself. This week, I have checked all of the fuses and replaced the EFI main relay and put on a new fuel filter. I also checked all of the wiring connectors that were accessible in the engine compartment. Nothing fixed the problem. However, when I put in the new relay, I was able to jumper wire the +B and Fp diagnostic terminals and did get the fuel pump to turn on (Key in On position) for a while yesterday but it would not start. Today, I put on the new fuel filter and again jumped the fuel pump. It hummed for about 30 seconds and then began to pulsate and eventually shut itself off. The car still did not start. I am at wits end with this thing. 
Found something new today!!
Linear Mode
